Wtf anyone listening to woman's hour now?

[qumquat]

No time to type write now but if you are I would like to discuss!

Hmm.

A post taking issue with an autistic person being labelled as a rapist gets reported and taken down.

Wonderful attitude that mumsnet

Lookatme

*"endorse their son raping another women [sic]"

Quoted for posterity.

Who has the son raped? Who is he (or anyone else) planning for him to rape?

hasitcometothis33

The (rad) feminist viewpoint is that prostitution, by its very nature, is paid-for rape.

It's not that her son has done this, it's that his mother considers it good option.

So you believe that the son, were he to take up his mother's offer, would be a 'rapist'.

If a woman is only giving consent because of money changing hands, it's not proper consent. Not proper consent is considered rape.

If she wouldn't sleep with him for free, she is coerced by the transactional nature.

You will find many threads debating this very thing.

And it's been brought up on here.

This isn't a theoretical discussion. Some poor sod has been violated, and now is being described/implied to be a rapist.

Would you regard the son as a rapist if he took up his mother's offer?

If you accept the prostitution is paid for rape, someone having sex with a prostitute would be considered a rapist. I think in this circumstance it would be thought to be someone who has been coerced into raping somebody else.

As I said, there are lots of threads debating this. It's not much good asking me personally, because I don't have all the answers. I do, however, think prostitution is completely wrong.

And being coerced by using money as an inducement shits all over the concept of enthusiastic consent.

I'd like to add, because the term rapist is so perjorative, there's a huge disconnect applying it to this child, obviously. Not something that I would have done in this particular case.

Despite me agreeing that the prostitute in question is not offering enthusiastic consent.

Sometimes nailing an argument down to its most forensic semantic detail is counter-productive and counter intuitive.

Do people buy men for autistic girls?

Are nt men not broad minded enough to have sex with them?

Consent is interesting here. Depending on the person are they capable not of consent? Harvey is still a child so god knows why KP is already planning the loss of his virginity, but will he even be capable of consent? I don't wish to offend but hasn't he got serious disabilities?

GinaFordCortina

Yes, you can get into a mindfuck of consent with that aspect of it!

Not just the consent factor, but for an adult child (of a parent) who does have greater capability to consent, how offensive is it to hear from your mother that she thinks that you're so unloveable / repulsive sexually that she's driven to buy you a prostitute because you have no other chance.

That in itself would lead to feeling rejected by women even if there's a chance (apparently proven in this case) that you're actually entirely capable of having a relationship on healthy, mutually beneficial terms.

There is a bit of a disconnect, socially. There is a view of sex as a basic need, which people are entitled to. An element of sex as a pleasurable physical activity, divorced from relationship.

It's a small step to it being a commodity.

A post taking issue with an autistic person being labelled as a rapist gets reported and taken down

Wonderful attitude that mumsnet

I reported it. If you skim read the thread , which I did (and many people do) it is not obvious the post was taking issue rather than making a comment on him.

You will see from my later posts I agree calling this "male entitlement" with reference to him is wrong. It is his mother who is the problem.

Oh this is confusing the post I reported was the one referring to him as a loser. It is still there.

I didn't refer to him as a loser. That's why the post was reinstated. It's really not that confusing.

Sorry if I offended, sex with a prostitute is a form of rape in my mind. The adult child being incapable of consent I understand I was targeting the mothers but still getting use to putting my thoughts on boards. I get the fact that a child incapable of proper consent couldn't be a rapist but mothers wanting to procure prostitutes (or sex workers still not sure of the right term here) for their children are creating issues where neither party can truly give consent. And it is messing with my head that people can think like that.

You might all be pro women but you are being quite ablist, many of you. Autism is a broad church. Not all autistic teens (over 16) are incapable of consenting to sex. Many have a good social understanding sufficient to understand why prostitution is an issue. Many struggle with social anxiety rather than an inability to grasp issues around sex and feminism, and that is why they may be unsuccessful in the sort of sexual experimentation experience of many teens.

Not all autists have learning difficulties.

The article itself might be seen as an example of a poor parent using their offspring' (apparent) autism as a means of justifying her shitty parenting.

The responses on this thread may be seen as radical feminists using theory as a means to justify their prejudice and as stick to beat an oppressed group.

Another mother who is an ASD advocate was writing about this in response to Katie Price saying she would pay for her son to go to a prostitute.
Anyone who wasn't all for it was being labelled as ignoring disabled people's sexuality.
Its infuriating and such a one dimensional argument.
So many people congratulating themselves at being really on it wrt to disability whilst totally ignoring the ethics (or lack of them) in the sex industry.

Why the FUCK would I pay for my autistic son to see a prostitute whilst telling my NT boys exactly what I think about men who pay for sex?
That is without getting into the issue of consent from both parties involved.

How can the male give informed consent to the act if they are not fully aware of the issues involved?

I as very clear on twitter but avoided giving any excuse to those who could accuse me of being disablist.
So I was totally ignored

How appalling. I am gobsmacked.

You might all be pro women but you are being quite ablist, many of you. Autism is a broad church. Not all autistic teens (over 16) are incapable of consenting to sex. Many have a good social understanding sufficient to understand why prostitution is an issue. Many struggle with social anxiety rather than an inability to grasp issues around sex and feminism, and that is why they may be unsuccessful in the sort of sexual experimentation experience of many teens

No one said all autistic people are incapable of consenting to sex. But if someone is such that their mum has had to take control of their sex life you might reasonably question their ability to consent.

Many struggle with social anxiety

Please tell me how the fuck anxiety in social situations such as going to the park or or to dinner disappears upon meeting a woman for the first time for paid sex, while your mother listens to Women's Hour in the car?

Prostitutes are people too so the social anxiety of getting naked and putting your dick in one is presumably still an issue

ginaford

their mum has had to take control of their sex life

She's 'had' to do no such thing. She's chosen to do so.

It's really something to see this poor chap - who has already been violated - being described as both a rapist and unable to consent themselves.

Gina you are misunderstanding my point. The point I was making is that it is social anxiety that impairs many autistic people's sexual experimentation. It is not (as implied in several posts) that they are incapable of understanding that women are not commodities or people in their own right because their social understanding is so poor. This might be the case for some people with significant learning difficulties as well as autism, but the way autistic people were being discussed as a homogenous incapable group was not on.