I'm so cross

[Yolandafarthing]

Just need somewhere to vent. My local parent's Facebook group had a post from a woman complaining she has hardly any help from her husband WRT housework/childcare and asking if others struggle too. Cue loads of other women commiserating.

Then the bloody admin shuts the comments on the thread down, because "it feels pretty negative to men, and I know that many of us have fantastic, pro-active and supportive partners, many of whom go to work as well as parent, and some of us are two Dad or two Mum families. If you swap the word 'man' for other descriptors like ethnicity or religion, it becomes clear that sweeping statements are unfair and inaccurate....I don't want [group name] to be a place where we perpetuate sexist stereotypes."

I'm fuming. This is a woman speaking. A woman silencing other women, because poor men.

Thoughts?

If men feel so bloody oppressed, no one hinders them from fucking walking away and living on a lonely island somewhere. Because men are not oppressed and not exploited, no one will stop them

Absolutely fuck all to stop all these white middle class Western "oppressed" women doing the same No?

I wasn't talking about "power relations", I was responding to OPs comment that 'women are oppressed, men are not' which is just simply not that black and white. Often where men are oppressed, women dismiss it.

Absolutely fuck all to stop all these white middle class Western "oppressed" women doing the same No?

One word: Michfest.

Bloody educate yourself. Your ignorance is embarrassing.

@MissBax. Men oppressing each other is sad and horrible, but it is a men's issue, men can solve it.
Feminism is here for the liberation of women.

It's easier to complain about the system, than being active and successful, and resent others for your own inadequacy

Yes, myself and other girls I know who've been harassed on the street by men from the age of around 14, the first time for many of us myself included in school uniform, targeted purely for our sex is "our own inadequacy". Or this girl, one of many girls and women attacked for no reason other than being female in yet another story which only made minor local news in the area (as is usually the case): www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/news/15339336.Mother_speaks_out_about_sex_attacker_who_assaulted_her__brave__daughter_after_getting_off_Twickenham_bus/?ref=mrb&lp=3

We are all "active and successful" already but certainly resent this and the many ways women and girls continue to be oppressed in society.

"Men oppressing each other is sad and horrible, but it is a men's issue, men can solve it." - so we should only look out for our own in life? How is that any different to turning migrants away because they can "solve it themselves"?

I wasn't talking about "power relations", I was responding to OPs comment that 'women are oppressed, men are not

Oppression IS power relations

And yes I do believe we're currently living in a patriarchal society but I believe it is evolving. It's about making equality attractive to all not just women. Men would benefit from it too. And my biggest thing is for children to be equal to adults with regards to their basic human rights. However equality will have to include people making choices and want to do their share of the shitwork. Or better still we reach a level where we share duties more communally. I think a lot of this is the loneliness of being at home that previous eras didn't experience.

so we should only look out for our own in life? How is that any different to turning migrants away because they can "solve it themselves"?

Women should look out for women before they look out for men.
Migrants (refugees) have no power and face violence and death. They are in a position of zero power. Men are....literally the opposite of that

*Whenever I read a woman attacking feminists for "stereotyping her husband" or something, I think: The lady doth protest too much.

Why would she have any need to repeat, at nauseam, what a lovely bloke her husband is, if he actually was? No need to convince yourself and others of something by repeating, repeating, repeating it if it is actually true and everyone can see.*

I didn't see anyone repeat this ad nauseam, perhaps I missed that. I have as much of a problem with someone insulting my DH as I would if they insulted me, my DC's, my mum - anyone I care about actually. I don't believe that, because he's a man, it makes him fair game.

Migrants (refugees) have no power and face violence and death. They are in a position of zero power. Men are....literally the opposite of that - erm they literally aren't.
Men are still the overwhelming majority being killed in work related accidents, in gun crime, by police, given longer prison sentences, given the death penalty, dying younger, working longer hours, with alcohol and drug addiction, account for 75% of suicide rates, living on the streets. The list goes on. Men ARW also oppressed (albeit in different ways to women), and often thus results in far more detrimental outcomes and DOES include life and death.

Yes, I wanted to post in feminist chat because I just wanted a safe space to vent.

Obviously I need to check better before posting next time!

*One word: Michfest.

Bloody educate yourself. Your ignorance is embarrassing*

You're on the internet.
You have full access to any airlines booking system.
So how exactly are those nasty "oppressors" stopping you from leaving?

I have as much of a problem with someone insulting my DH

Speaking about men as a class is not insulting your DH.

And yes I do believe we're currently living in a patriarchal society but I believe it is evolving.

It is not evolving. Women have fought very hard for our rights, and right now, things are going backwards.

Men now get to have all the nice things equality could give them ON TOP of getting to exploit and oppress women.

What are you going to offer men to make them want equality?

• women's trust? Men currently demand that without doing anything about male violence at all.

• time with children? Men take that when they want to, and leave childcare to women the rest of the time.

• ability to wear whatever clothes they want to? Genderism is working on it, men can just identify as woman and do all the things that are nice about being a woman, and not lose any of their dudely privilege. (Or, nowadays, their penis. Penis can be female nowadays, according to genderism).

A feminism based on making men want equality is doomed to fail. Men will take everything they want. That's patriarchy.

The only thing patriarchy will never give males is safety from violence as children. It is in the name, patriarchy, rule of fathers. For adult males to rule supreme, male children have to be oppressed.

But the men you want to persuade to be on the side of feminism are adults. So that won't work.

Yes, I wanted to post in feminist chat because I just wanted a safe space to vent.

It's still an online public forum where people are free to voice opinions that differ from your own.

You are only oppressed by someone if you let them

I am an educated woman. I have financial independence.

When it was hot a few weeks ago I left the house wearing a pair of denim shorts to collect my young son from nursery. On the way back, as I was pushing him in his buggy, a group of men across the street yelled at me "Nice legs!"

Was that my fault?

It's still an online public forum where people are free to voice opinions that differ from your own.

I never debated this, I was merely answering a PP who asked why it should be moved to feminist chat. HTH.

So how exactly are those nasty "oppressors" stopping you from leaving?

By not paying me enough to be able to pay a flight. By FUCKING INVADING EVERY WOMEN's SPACE. How do you even live with yourself, being so uneducated?

Michfest. Google it. You are on the internet. FUCKING EDUCATE YOURSELF.

Hello, might be a thick question but what does opression/opress mean? Layman's terms please

I never debated this, I was merely answering a PP who asked why it should be moved to feminist chat. HTH. - ah my mistake Yolanda!

Freddy

Mate, women can't even have their own toilet or changing room without men wanting in it. You think we'd be allowed an island??!?

Speaking about men as a class is not insulting your DH.

I believe that to be speaking about mean 'as a class' is a massive generalisation and not something I see as a positive thing, regardless of gender. I don't like it when people do it about women either.

Yolanda

Sorry you had to deal with so much bullshit. Thanks for trying to draw attention to the silencing of women.

It is a shame there are so many handmaidens of patriarchy out there, even on mumsnet.

No worries :)

Speaking about men as a class is not insulting your DH.

Indeed not. I speak about these issues with my dad and brothers - luckily they're very receptive and my dad and elder of my two brothers (both are younger than me) in particular very much take it on board. The boys I'm friends with are feminists too.