I'm so cross

[Yolandafarthing]

Just need somewhere to vent. My local parent's Facebook group had a post from a woman complaining she has hardly any help from her husband WRT housework/childcare and asking if others struggle too. Cue loads of other women commiserating.

Then the bloody admin shuts the comments on the thread down, because "it feels pretty negative to men, and I know that many of us have fantastic, pro-active and supportive partners, many of whom go to work as well as parent, and some of us are two Dad or two Mum families. If you swap the word 'man' for other descriptors like ethnicity or religion, it becomes clear that sweeping statements are unfair and inaccurate....I don't want [group name] to be a place where we perpetuate sexist stereotypes."

I'm fuming. This is a woman speaking. A woman silencing other women, because poor men.

Thoughts?

So you are stereotyping me? You are telling me my partner oppresses me? You are judging me and what you believe my home life to be based only on the fact I am a woman?

Men as a class oppress women as a class. Perhaps your partner doesn't, specifically, oppress you (as mine doesn't). He will still have benefited from the general oppression of women in society.

I know women with male partners and sons like to get defensive about this, and as someone who has both I admit it is a bitter pill to swallow.

You can get aggro with me all you want tomatoes.

It would perhaps have been more helpful for the admins to leave the thread up and to ask people not to make generalisations and sweeping statements. I don't think it's helpful to delete a thread where someone is struggling and asking for help.

The idea that women can't discuss issues that affect them for fear of upsetting men (and equalists) is wrong.

The thing is that, unlike people of other ethnicities, men are hardly an oppressed minority, in fact far from it. So the reason for closing the thread is a nonsense. It's also depressing that, at a time when 'women have never had it so good' (because of the hard work of feminists, in the main) there is still, among far too many women, too much acceptance of a lack of equality in the home.

Of course NAMALT. Is it really necessary to have to add this to every bloody discussion?

Also lolling at women have never had it so good. It's so awesome we've got the vote!!!

Today 07:48 ThroughThickAndThin01

grinwhat ridiculous bollocks. This thread validates my reasons for hiding the feminist board.

..........

I can't stand modern feminism. I found this fantastic quote which sums them up.

"The problem being that 3rd wave feminism is more about superiority than equality, whilst also playing a continual victim card they display a huge entitlement ethos. Without modern liberal political correctness supported by social media these 3rd wave rabid feminists would have been on the periphery. Alas they have skewed the definition of femininity beyond rescue. I feel more scared for our sons and the hell we have allowed feminists to create for the male gender in the Western world."

Instead of having this fight on here, why not go and gather the wealth of data there is from surveys of housework, which show that, on average, even where men and women are in waged work for equal hours (though seldom for equal pay!), more than 50% of the housework falls to women. Producing the evidence to justify your stance is key here.

The problem being that 3rd wave feminism is more about superiority than equality, whilst also playing a continual victim card they display a huge entitlement ethos. Without modern liberal political correctness supported by social media these 3rd wave rabid feminists would have been on the periphery. Alas they have skewed the definition of femininity beyond rescue. I feel more scared for our sons and the hell we have allowed feminists to create for the male gender in the Western world.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

FFS

fei

I am not a third wave feminist. I despise third wave feminism.

A) what bollocks and
B) pretty sure OP is not a 3rd wave feminist

I think they see it as normal. TBH doesn't really help when they get a bunch of replies saying "oh I just think men are wired differently - they aren't good at multitasking" or whatever.

That's why they need other women to post about how it's not normal to live like that. If it's just a man-bashing thread it just reinforces their ignorant standpoint. Better to remove it imo.

That's why they need other women to post about how it's not normal to live like that

They did. In droves. Im pretty sure those were the posts the admin meant when she referred to negativity towards men.

Maybe if you stop telling women that this is what all men are like, then women will stop expecting to be treated this way and be less accepting of certain domestic arrangements.

You contribute to the problem, you don't solve it.

Just to be clear - I haven't seen the thread so I can't judge. Of course women should be able to ask for help and no, men are not an oppressed group. But sexist stereotypes should be challenged whatever the gender so that equality can be achieved.

Women are oppressed. That is fact. Not stereotype...Men as a class oppress women as a class.

Surely you can see you are massively stereotyping? Some women are oppressed by some men. That's a fact. What you're saying isn't.
I'm not oppressed by any men and wouldn't have married a man where there was any chance of that happening. Pretty sure most of my friends would feel the same, looking at their relationships. I'd be against a thread randomly slagging off men. Its too easy for specific rants about specific men to degenerate into "men do this" "men are like that" and even "men oppress women" which is basically misandry.

Why is it up to women to do the educating? Why can't men educate their sons and themselves that they need to contribute equally to family and home life?

You need to direct the poor woman to Mumsnet. There are hundreds of threads on here that will be right up her street. For every one man doing some light hoovering there are a thousand scratching their balls watching Top Gear.

Fei WTAF are you talking about? Do you really believe that bollocks?!

Ps that quote is overwritten, complete with unnecessarily flowery, complex language. That usually means it's written by someone who isn't particularly intelligent, i.e. It's bullshit.

This is class analysis

Like when we say that black people face more barriers to high status jobs than white people, or have poorer university acceptance figures etc. The existence of black people in top jobs or at Cambridge doesn't disprove this.
So women as a class are oppressed by men as a class. Men hold the vast majority of positions of power and wealth. Men do far less household drudgery. Men commit the overwhelming majority of domestic violence, sexual assault and child sexual abuse. Men earn more than women. All these things are facts. Just because your Nigel doesn't oppress you does not mean that women are not oppressed by men on a structural level in our society.

Oh and Fei? Do you have a source for the quote? I just tried to google it and couldn't find it anywhere?

No point posting a quote and not letting us know who said it.

AuroraBora

I just googled it and I won't link... it was the daily mail

women have never had it so good

Are you fucking kidding me??

Hi folks,

The OP has asked us to move this over to feminism chat and so we're sending it that way now!

Ffs. MN has clearly been infiltrate by MRAs going by the first page of posts.

I have to say, that seems like a real pity to have moved it. Irritating though some posts are, surely it's better not to have this debate in an echo chamber?

As a feminist I am not fighting for equality, I am fighting for liberation from male oppression.

feminism - the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

Dictionary link