Teen Vogue article

[NoLoveofMine]

Someone has "Tweeted" defending "that" Teen Vogue article. I don't really know the point of me starting this thread - just wanted somewhere to vent. She has done it in response to people criticising it and said that teenagers would have anal sex regardless and that the article could be educational.

I'm quite upset.

[MNHQ have edited the title and the OP very slightly due to privacy concerns].

Datun speaks the truth ^^^

YetAnotherSpartacus

Beautifully put. Laughing at:

See also our 'brother mag' Vogue TB (Teen Boy) for articles on "Pleasing her sexually', 'Porn isn't real you know' and 'it's not all about you'."

Serendipity, Maisy - the problem is that one rather feeble disclaimer sentence doesn't go anywhere close to counteracting the pressure girls are under from boys due to the porn industry. This isn't horny teenagers experimenting as horny teenagers have since the beginning of time. This is boys for the most part pressurising girls into an act they for the most part don't want and don't enjoy. We know this because the British Medical Journal did a large study of young people's sexual practices and attitudes to sex among 16 to 24 year olds.

From memory, the majority of young women in that age group had tried anal sex. A minority - maybe about 25% - actually enjoyed it. The rest were split between those who were "meh, does nothing for me" (clitoris left off the diagram, remember? non-prostate owners?) and those who found it painful.

Then the survey got to the boys attitudes and here's where things got truly scary. The majority of boys expected to be able to include anal sex as part of their sex life. They expected the girls not to want to. They expected to have to "persuade" the girls to do it. They engaged in this persuasion in the expectation that the girls would not enjoy it and would find it painful.

So - where are the articles in teen lads mags saying "you know most of your girlfriends wouldn't actually find this enjoyable?" Where are the articles saying "a gentleman waits for the woman to raise the subject first?" Where are the articles saying "anal takes trust - so to build up that trust how about letting your girlfriend try pegging you first? (After all, you have a prostate so you're more likely to enjoy it than she is).

Where are the articles for girls saying "You don't enjoy anal? Don't worry. You're not alone. In fact, you're statistically normal. The women who do are the ones in the minority and it's okay to say no."

Some excellent posts on this thread. I'm regularly reminded of how knowledgeable you all are here; so many posts I learn so much from.

I think me starting it was not very nice though - I shouldn't post like that about someone I know. I just felt a bit irked because that article enraged me.

NoLoveofMine

It irked you for a reason.

It's a good thread.

Datun I usually have the same viewpoint as you, but here I disagree. I don't see it as promotion at all. Pretending teens don't know about anal sex is shutting the stable door well after the horse has bolted, porn is out there on their smart phones, we can't put it back in the box now. More information is always good - if anything I agree that it didn't give enough information - information about potential injuries etc would be useful, you're right. I expect there is a word limit on these things.

I read the flavour as "if you're going to try it, here's some useful info". And it can be fun, the author isn't making that up!

Thank you Datun.

SerendipityFelix it is promotion. The magazine is aimed at young teenage girls. The article is suggesting that anal sex is completely routine, in a culture where many boys are seeing it in pornography and coming to expect it from girls. The article adds to that culture, normalising it and potentially making the girls who read it think about it for the first time, and feel they should "give" boys it if they ask for it, because many expect it and even this magazine is talking of it in a matter of fact manner. On top of all that, the clitoris isn't even mentioned and women and girls are merely defined against men, rather than who we are.

Dd is the target age range so when she returns later I will ask her perspective.

I too agree with everything else said.

SerendipityFelix

I'm glad that you usually agree with me! And I don't mind at all that you don't on this point.

I understand you are saying they're doing it anyway, let's get them tools to do it safely.

My problem is the reason they are doing it anyway (if they all are, are they?).

M0stly has explained it above.

I'm happy for information to be given. I am disturbed that this information is aimed at 13 year olds and the conclusion is they're doing it anyway.

The conclusion needs addressing.

The reasons they are doing it isn't because 'it's fun and we just need advice on the right lube.'

Give young girls the tools to confidently establish boundaries.

First, foremost and always.

Then point them to a medically explained article, with neutral language.

I've just read the article. Personality I think it is well balanced, it states a number of time that it isn't for everyone, give safety tips and explains that it is something people can enjoy. IMO its better than randomly doing a Google search, having to seek out information like you are doing something wrong. Noons is forcing anyone to read the article or engage in anal sex its just giving information.

Its nice to see a thread like this where people have been able to have an adult debate, these things all too often descent into attacks on people that express their opinion which puts people off posting. Proof we all don't have to agree on everything but we can have a proper conversation.

I disagree that it's promotion, so that's where our different responses stem from.

Also, anal play/sex is normal. As normal as any other non-PIV sex.

Pressure to engage in any sex act is a problem, normalising violence and sexual coercion is a problem, the concept of 'giving' sex or sex being something you 'do to' someone rather than 'do with' someone is a problem...but aiming to silence discussion about safe sexual practice is not the way to combat those issues.

I also don't see how this article is stopping of these other suggested themes for articles - on sexual agency, seeking pleasure for oneself, building trust in a sexual relationship etc - all sound like good ideas for discussion alongst sexually inquisitive teens to me. Anyone going to write/submit them for publishing?

Serendipity - yes, as I said up thread, about 25% of the women in the BMJ survey did enjoy anal. The overwhelming majority, 75%, did not.

This is an article aimed at 13 year olds. It's not "how to do something (which incidentally is illegal at your age) safely", it's about persuading them it's a normal, integral part of sex. Against a social context (quite different incidentally from my youth - I'm an old gimmer in her fifties) in which men are pressurising women into anal sex they don't want and don't enjoy.

The balance of the article is all wrong. Yes, teenagers are sexually curious. But 13 year old girls need above all reassurance. Reassurance that their bodies are their own and they get to say what does or does not happen to them. Reassurance that it's okay to be uncertain, it's okay to say no. Reassurance that their sexual pleasure matters (congratulations for being in the 25%, I'm glad you enjoy it - but the other 75% need to be empowered, in the proper, meaningful sense of empowered, to say "no, this isn't doing anything for me/is painful - and what the hell is sex about if not mutual pleasure?").

Deal with that stuff first, properly and thoroughly, and then maybe you can get onto "now here's a niche activity that about a quarter of women enjoy, and if you're in that quarter, here's how to do it safely."

What I'm saying is you can do both. You can inform and establish boundaries.

This article made a superficial nod towards boundaries whilst making anal sex to be routine.

Boundaries first. As something, good, positive, empowering.

It should be promoted as the default answer to will you do anal?

Because who does that harm?

If a girl wants do, she absolutely will!

The two viewpoints do not carry the same weight.

No-one is forcing anyone to partake in it, no, but normalising it to young teenage girls at an age boys are already viewing pornography and coming to expect anal sex is dangerous. It adds to a culture in which girls can come to feel compelled to do things they're not comfortable with because it's what sex is, or what boys expect, and to read about it like this may enforce to them that it's something they should be doing. If a boy then suggests or pressures a girl into it at that age she may feel she should try it because of having read about it, even if she's uncomfortable with it.

Differences of opinion are going arise, I believe, largely on the basis of whether you personally like anal or not.

But statistically girls do not. Statistically boys do. Porn has given them the expectation that they are entitled to it.

I don't see how anyone can argue that, given those statistics, an article on anal sex should be weighted heavily in favour of that 75%.

And I agree it's great to debate this without a bunfight!

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog

Even that one statistic would have changed the entire article.

75% of girls don't want this.

Job done.

I don't think that article pressures girls into having anal sex. Honestly, I have a bigger issue with the way teen magazines for girls in general are geared up around how they look and the need to find a relationship over being great at hobbies, interested in world affairs, succeeding at school/uni than I do a fairly reasonable article that gives information about a sex act.

Someone's mentioned that they find it disturbing this information needs to be given to teens, I totally agree.

But teens have access to a huge amount more information and sexual content now. We have to cover the law on sexting and issues surrounding explicit and suggestive pictures from the start of secondary now because we are dealing with issues linked to it. Leaving it until y10/11 is actually too late (worryingly).

Some cross-posting going on here - also M0stly you're making some assumptions about firstly my personal experience with anal sex (that I haven't stated, and posters' personal sexual practices shouldn't be brought into this I feel) and secondly that people who do on occasion enjoy anal play would not need to feel empowered to refuse on other occasions! Surely everyone should be empowered to decline any sexual activity they wish to, at any time for whatever reason.

Pressure on teen girls to conform to porn standards go way beyond anal sex - pubic waxing, body types, appearance of genitalia, faking orgasms, lack of focus on the clitoris or genuine female pleasure, finding licking their own fingers a turn on (wtf?), being ejaculated upon, performing with toys for voyeurs, group sex...generally there needs to be a big push to educate ALL teens on real sex, real bodies, real pleasure and real consent.

I just don't read this article as being incompatible with what seem like our overwhelmingly shared views on the subject.

I'm confused because the article seems to focus on receiving a dick up the arse, and it focuses on anal pleasure (mainly for those smart enough to have invested in a prostate gland at birth).

I thought many boys wanted anal (with girls) because of penile stimulation?

Agree with datun

Although i wish that rose thing hadn't been mentioned

I was living in extremely happy ignorance

generally there needs to be a big push to educate ALL teens on real sex, real bodies, real pleasure and real consent

Yep

Me too rufus.

Although i wish that rose thing hadn't been mentioned

Lol, the internet can be a grim grim place... one reason why an accessible article on anal sex isn't a bad idea for teens, to save them from googling 'anal sex'!

I also think the article unnecessarily promotes anal sex.
By printing it in a mainstream magazine, they knew it would be controversial. My worry is that the backlash will be centred around pearl clutching eg parents who don't want their dc knowing about sex, religious objections, homophobia, etc. This could make it even more difficult for young girls to refuse consent to anal, as they will be accused of pandering to conservative morals.
Instead, I'd like to see the backlash focused on female pleasure. The article, and in particular the diagrams, erase any ideas of positive female sexuality. I'm really mad about that. Women are not non prostate owners, we are not orifices for the penis, we are not vessels for male pleasure. We need an erotic revolution to reclaim sex from grubby pornographers and damaged young men.

I just think that in an adult that experimentation between consenting adults (ideally in a relationship...i know that makes me old fashioned. Im not talking years!) is fine and dandy

But anal or bdsm etc shouldn't be the first thing you do with a lad, be you male or female

And i know no one is saying that...but i feel thats the way our society is going