Teen Vogue article

[NoLoveofMine]

Someone has "Tweeted" defending "that" Teen Vogue article. I don't really know the point of me starting this thread - just wanted somewhere to vent. She has done it in response to people criticising it and said that teenagers would have anal sex regardless and that the article could be educational.

I'm quite upset.

[MNHQ have edited the title and the OP very slightly due to privacy concerns].

Argh I wish I could say more but it could be outing.

Which Teen Vogue article?

The one describing anal sex.

OK I have googled, and it seems it's an article describing the pros of anal sex for men, whilst disregarding any alternative female perspective.

Arseholes are not just a receptacle for cocks.

Also I'm aware this probably seems quite unpleasant, talking about someone behind her back; I don't mean it to be just wanted somewhere to express my discomfort.

[[http://www.teenvogue.com/story/anal-sex-what-you-need-to-know Anal Sex: What You Need To Know

Sorry posted too soon

Anal Sex: What You Need To Know

Well, your friend has a very valid point that many people do like to experiment and engage in anal sex, and information and advice about safe practices are valuable. I had a (bisexual male) friend at school who was hospitalised with anal injuries after his first, consensual anal sex experience. Seeing as his only point of reference then was the TV show Queer As Folk - depicting that anal sex was a straightforward as (TV) vaginal sex, just get straight to it - he would have benefitted immensely from an article like that.

My only objection to it on my first, early-morning reading of it is their tedious refusal to use any clear descriptions of the sex of people being referred to - obliquely referring to "prostate owners" and "non-prostate owners" is just ridiculous, because male/female anatomy suffices quite happily. And I sincerely object to my sex (Note: not gender!) being defined by not possessing male anatomy, as if a male body is the standard human and a female body is missing something. I'm not familiar with the author or the publication, but such is the trans bandwagon that I understand they'd attract so much flack for suggesting that prostrates are male, that their valid points about promoting safe sex advice would be lost.

The article seems to be mostly based around ensuring the recipient (whatever sex, or indeed, gender identity they are) stays safe, to be honest.

What are your objections, NoLoveOfMine?

No objections regarding it , it's promoting safe sex. Is it a subject that you'd rather not read / talk
About?

Sounds to me like they're giving information to teenagers about something teenagers need information on.

I don't like the fact that we have to cover sexting and photo sharing at ks3 (11-14) but the fact is kids are doing it so we can at least inform them inform them of the law and how to be safe.

Well I object to it.

If someone wants to have anal sex and they are not sure how, they can google it. Gone are the days when information was not instantly available at the touch of a button.

What this does is promote it. It's more than just information.

If a woman wants anal sex, great. That's her prerogative.

But most women don't. Most boys do. It is pushed in pornography as entirely normal.

Girls are already under tremendous pressure to have anal sex. There is a study suggesting that it is often a girl's first experience of sex, and as they remain 'virgins', it has that attraction.

'Rosebudding' is a popular porn theme. Continuing to have anal sex with a woman who has an anal prolapse, caused by repeated, often violent, anal sex. Not just sex, but a quite forensic examination of the injury including pouring honey over it and licking and prodding the injury.

Pornography celebrates the violent degradation of women. Anal sex is central to this theme in pornography.

So yeah, writing a guide aimed at 13 year olds however 'informative' is unacceptable.

Girls can find out how to do anal sex any time they like.

The reality is they will be under tremendous pressure to try it and a magazine with their best interests in mind should be giving them tools to maintain their boundaries.

The author of the article calls herself a dick whisper and has also written about BDSM for 13 year olds.

What they are promoting is illegal for half the demographic they are aiming for. And yeah it's unsurprising that the article also makes girls to be non-boys and doesn't bother even labelling the clitoris, the main source of pleasure for women.

Absolutely everything that datun said.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/teen-vogue-anal-sex-prostate-owner-sheila-michaels-feminism-teenagers-a7831671.html

I've been having a quick skim of the internet reaction to this. The Independent article above is very good. Sadly, the rest the responses are dichotomised between approval from LGBT / Queer / LibFem sources and frothings from right wing Christians who object on moral grounds (but who don't object to little girls growing all up all nice and feminine to be helpmeets for men). That divide is colouring a lot of debates (porn, prostitution, trans, etc.) lately.

Most of the tweets I've seen defending it have been from gay men who would've wanted this info.
It would have been better if they'd given teen girls some tips to resist pressure and also pointed out that research shows neither boys nor girls particularly enjoy anal.

Most of the tweets I've seen defending it have been from gay men who would've wanted this info

I don't read things on Twitter, but I have noticed this more broadly. There is a lot of support from gay men both because they want the info and because they don't want anal sex to be de-stigmatised. Well, bully for them. Just more of 'I've got a dick so I am the centre of the universe and only my needs count'. Women? Who are they again?

The first few comments under that Independent article were encouraging, though.

This whole trans debate has got women circling their wagons.

Feminists (rad not lib) are up in arms everywhere. Women who are uncomfortable are listening. Libfems are crossing the divide.

The trans-debate changed from talking about inclusion, to such a wholesale erasure of women and the words to describe them that people are getting pissed off. Regular, normal people.

Feminists connected the dots. They could see the day when a man, looking exactly like a man, identifying as a woman could demand access.

All the cries of, transphobe, that will never happen, they're not rapists, etc, were hollow then and they're positively echoing now.

There is no difference in a man who passes and a man who doesn't. But people see a man who doesn't pass and it definitely brings them up short.

Non prostate owners is just an extension of that. Sexualising absolutely everything is the same.

Where are all the articles in male magazines telling 13-year-old boys how to take a dildo up the arse?

It's 'awesome', 'it's a perfectly natural way to engage in sexual activity', 'unique' and 'delightful'.

So not just for boys who are gay, obviously. Any boy should be just as delighted as the girls they are pressuring.

I understand these objections if the article was promoting anal sex.... but I didn't read it as that at all. It quite clearly states it's not for everyone, no one should do anything they don't want to etc.

Anal sex happens, it's not taboo or shameful and does not inherently involve the subjugation of women - it doesn't even need to involve women. Porn involving fetishising violence against women is a seperate issue - and trying to silence discussion of consensual anal sex in order to combat violence against women is akin to banning genital piercings to combat FGM, in my opinion. Whilst the things may appear broadly similar the context is wildly different and therefore our response should be too.

It quite clearly states it's not for everyone, no one should do anything they don't want to etc.
Exactly.
It's the common sense view (to me) of 'I don't have to like what teenagers get up to, but IF they are going to do it then I want them to be well informed, aware of the risks and how to mitigate them'.

Otherwise we don't provide information, but that feels like a move in the direction of some places in the US where rather than accept teenagers have sex they do abstinence only sex education.

The article isn't merely informative, it's promotion.

I can't read it again, but from memory, no mention of anal fissures, recommending a condom as an afterthought to the article, no mention of cross infection, UTIs.

If this was printed in Vogue, not Teen Vogue, you might have a point. Adult women who have well-established boundaries (although many feel pressurised to have anal that they don't want).

It's disingenuous to not see the overall flavour of this article.

It's awesome (but you don't have to do it) it's unique (but you don't have to do it) it's delightful (but you don't have to do it).

Sprinkling a caveat here and there about not having to do it is the wrong way round.

And this is aimed at thirteen year olds. THIRTEEN. For whom the age of consent is three years away.

If you think a 13 year old girl is going to come away from reading the article thinking great I can say no and everyone will back me up, you're wrong.

I absolutely agree that teenagers should be well informed, but I totally disagree that this article is doing that. It may have some information in it, but the overall flavour is try it, cos it's fun.

It's important that we talk about all kinds of sex because not everyone is having, or wants to have, "penis in the vagina" sex. If you do have "penis in the vagina" sex and are curious about something else, or are finding that that type of sex is not for you and you'd just like to explore other options, it's helpful to know the facts. Even if you do learn more and decide anal sex is not a thing you'd like to try, it doesn't hurt to have the information

How about something like "It's important that we reinforce the second-wave message that sex should be something you do (if you do it) because you want to, not because you feel pressured to do it and it should also be something that you get pleasure from.

On-Line pornography has seen a recent rise in boys asking for anal sex. Many girls are having anal sex for this reason. As a result, many are getting injured and contracting STI's. This is not to say that anal sex is all bad. Some women do enjoy it. The important thing is that you should not feel pressured to engage in this or any other form of sex unless this is your reason for engaging. See our other articles on 'saying no', 'having sexual confidence to ask for what you want' and 'the importance of pleasure FOR YOU'. See also our 'brother mag' Vogue TB (Teen Boy) for articles on "Pleasing her sexually', 'Porn isn't real you know' and 'it's not all about you'."

Obviously there is a lot of stuff on the Internet about anal (we don’t suggest you Google it), but most of what you’ll find is either porn or advice for experienced sexual persons looking to try something new. What about the teenagers? What about the LGBTQ young people who need to know about this for their sexual health

Why the fuck do lesbians need to know about anal sex for their sexual health? Sure, some might engage in it, but I hardly think it is paramount! Yet another instance of assuming that LGBTQ people have the same needs when they don't.