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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Caitlyn Jenner

999 replies

Terfinator · 10/04/2017 23:44

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4398858/Caitlyn-Jenner-underwent-gender-reassignment-surgery.html

(Yes, it's the DM - because it's one of the only news sources which is balanced on the trans issue)

Saint Caitlyn has a book coming out in which she reveals that she HAS had gender reassessment surgery. I think a few people on here thought that they hadn't.

Anyway, the DM have some interesting pictures which show how trans surgery works.

As always, the comments are very telling... Fair play to the DM for keeping them open!

OP posts:
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11
Datun · 11/04/2017 18:58

"Transphobia" is against the MN rules, I don't really understand why everyone's so shocked that being hateful and demeaning is getting them in trouble.

As the ideology itself is based on the very epitome of demeaning women, (a woman is anyone who says they are) I think it's a shocking demonstration of double standards.

Ifitquackslikeaduck · 11/04/2017 19:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Rawr · 11/04/2017 19:01

As the ideology itself is based on the very epitome of demeaning women, (a woman is anyone who says they are)

Sorry to break it to you bud but trans people are not trans because they want to shit on women, how self absorbed.

AssassinatedBeauty · 11/04/2017 19:03

Why does being trans mean that other people have to agree with their belief that they are the opposite sex, to the point that it is a crime to suggest otherwise? I can't think of another situation where what other people think is policed like this.

Datun · 11/04/2017 19:05

Sorry to break it to you bud but trans people are not trans because they want to shit on women, how self absorbed.

Very naive and I disagree. There are very many transactivists, mostly autogynephiles, who have misogyny as their prime motivation.

Here is just a small sample. (Trigger warning - abusive).

anti-female-receipts.tumblr.com/tagged/rape%20threat

CharlieSierra · 11/04/2017 19:08

What Datun said.

Gallavich · 11/04/2017 19:16

Trans ideology; the very belief system that underpins the concept of transgenderism, is regressive, unscientific, faith based, misogynistic ideology which harms women. Bud.

Gallavich · 11/04/2017 19:17

Autogynephiles are not transgender and do not represent transgender people, it's naive to think otherwise

transphobe!!!

Rawr · 11/04/2017 19:18

That tumblr link is supposed to be a valid source? They're idiot teenagers trolling, that's a joke.

Rawr · 11/04/2017 19:20

Trans ideology; the very belief system that underpins the concept of transgenderism, is regressive, unscientific, faith based, misogynistic ideology which harms women. Bud.

Progressive, scientific and psychological. See the sources I just linked.

PencilsInSpace · 11/04/2017 19:24

Since when has calling a male a male been 'hateful and demeaning'? I get that it's impolite if the male believes he is female but maleness is not some shameful state and never has been.

This is an uncomfortable thread because the initial focus was on CJ's genitalia and so it is very personal, even if CJ has chosen to share the news with the whole world.

It's important though. I've read too many posts about MTT 'becoming women' or 'becoming female' or 'having a vagina' and none of those things are true. It's a massive gaslighty headfuck to expect women to believe that.

This is a parenting forum. There will be posters here whose children are saying they are trans. It's incredibly important for those parents to understand where the trans treatment juggernaut is heading so they can make an informed decision about whether they want their child on board.

Earlier in the thread someone linked to the 4th Wave Now blog post about the surgeon who is facing numerous lawsuits. Scrolling through the comments I came across this which is a presentation by the surgeon. It's horrific (really, do not follow that link unless you have a very strong stomach it's both graphic and gruesome). The constructed genitalia are bad enough, but those poor girls' arms and legs ShockSadAngry

Datun · 11/04/2017 19:26

Rawr

I'm not going to copy and paste the dozens and dozens of links to violent misogynistic crime committed by people identifying as trans. I would be here all day.

Believe me, I would like nothing more than a failsafe test to diagnose transgender. It would eliminate 90% of people identifying as trans and we could all go home.

But as there is no such test, and as transwomen commit crime at exactly the same rate as natal men, and as, statistically, they have a high percentage of psycho sexual illnesses, and since they do currently include autogynephiles and in fact there is zero, and I mean zero objective criteria, we are all still here.

All those people on the link I posted identify as trans. You would be accused of transphobia for saying otherwise.

If you can resolve this, I'm happy to hear it.

WhereYouLeftIt · 11/04/2017 19:26

Rawr, all of your link are 2008 or earlier. If the claimed results had been reproduced by later studies, I think the TRAs would be making a bit more noise about them.

And whilst tumblr may be full of idiotic teenagers, it's where a lot of teenagers hang out. And are influenced by the drip drip drip of this sort of shit.

RogueBiscuit · 11/04/2017 19:29

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AssassinatedBeauty · 11/04/2017 19:30

Rawr, clearly having gender dysphoria is a real thing and will have it's roots in an individual's psychology and their brain. None of your links in any way supports the idea that they are women trapped in men's bodies. They are men with apparent atypical development of parts of their brains. That doesn't make them female or women, or have female brains.

Albadross · 11/04/2017 19:33

Uh oh - they change to using 'he' in the bit about tracheal shaving...

Datun · 11/04/2017 19:34

They are men with apparent atypical development of parts of their brains. That doesn't make them female or women, or have female brains.

Nor it doesn't make them nice, kind gentle lambs.

Rawr · 11/04/2017 19:37

It's not hateful to state fact and I'm astonished that women are being bullied into calling these men women. And it is bullying. No one would indulge me if I was deluded enough to believe a cat is a dog. Why are we being forced to validate these men's delusions and fetishes? It feels like, well, something horrible that I don't consent to.

You seem hurt. Where's my violin?

and as transwomen commit crime at exactly the same rate as natal men, and as, statistically, they have a high percentage of psycho sexual illnesses,

Is this a troll? This is because bio males and females are different and the impact and brainwashing-type-impact society has on children while growing up, it's not that surprising that these effects last into adulthood. They're raised, treated and expected to act male, that doesn't go away when they realise they're trans. Men statistically commit more crime and are more likely to have sexual related illness than women, no?

Rawr · 11/04/2017 19:39

They are men with apparent atypical development of parts of their brains. That doesn't make them female or women, or have female brains.

What do you suppose we do then? Electroshock therapy or just continue berating them?

VestalVirgin · 11/04/2017 19:41

Nor it doesn't make them nice, kind gentle lambs.

And even if it did, there would be no way of telling them apart from other males.

I'm pretty sure most of the currently famous transwomen don't even have dysphoria, but how would one prove that? It's impossible.

IF someone has surgery, we can assume that he must have been dysphoric, because otherwise he'd not have opted for that - but that cannot be used as distinction, as it gets you accused of "forcing" them to have surgery. (And it is also perfectly possible for people who did not exactly suffer to make cosmetic changes to their bodies)

Datun · 11/04/2017 19:41

They're raised, treated and expected to act male, that doesn't go away when they realise they're trans.

Which is why they shouldn't be allowed women spaces! I don't see what your point is.

Datun · 11/04/2017 19:42

They're raised, treated and expected to act male, that doesn't go away when they realise they're trans.

Which is why they shouldn't be allowed women spaces! I don't see what your point is.

AssassinatedBeauty · 11/04/2017 19:43

Why would you use ECT? I would suggest treating them in whatever way works best, including hormones and surgery to change their appearance if that is the best treatment option. None of that requires me to believe that they can actually change sex or that they really always have been the other sex in the "wrong" body.