Caitlyn Jenner

[Terfinator]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4398858/Caitlyn-Jenner-underwent-gender-reassignment-surgery.html

(Yes, it's the DM - because it's one of the only news sources which is balanced on the trans issue)

Saint Caitlyn has a book coming out in which she reveals that she HAS had gender reassessment surgery. I think a few people on here thought that they hadn't.

Anyway, the DM have some interesting pictures which show how trans surgery works.

As always, the comments are very telling... Fair play to the DM for keeping them open!

Phyllis, you're so, so close to joining the dots it's almost painful to watch.

You agree that Jenner is problematic and that Danielle is not a "real" transwoman. You don't want to share a changing room or a hospital ward with Danielle, or with Lian Huntly any more than any other woman on this board does.

The point that feminists are trying to raise is that the rhetoric of transactivism is seeking to prevent any woman from having these objections and being able to voice them at all. Danielle took a place in a woman's refuge. That meant that a woman who might otherwise have been able to leave an abusive relationship was not able to do so because there was nowhere for her to go. And if we keep mangling the language and people's perceptions of reality the way we're going, soon, no-one is even going to be able to say why that's wrong.

Do you see?

And here's another one...

https://www.google.ch/amp/s/gendertrender.wordpress.com/2015/01/08/terf-tracker-allison-woolbert-outed-as-violent-sex-offender-resigns-citing-his-unconscionable-behavior-as-a-human-being/amp/

The whole "attracted to men/women" thing has been on my radar a while. "Lesbians" massively over-represented among transwomen in the research that has been done.

Apart from the obvious reason I wonder if it could be that these transwomen are more likely to participate in research as they seem to be the more vocal group.

A mere 3 years ago I attended some training about trans issues given by a transwoman. She remained married to her wife. She told us we could ask anything apart from questions about her sexual identity (I can't remember how she phrased it but basically she told us not to ask if she was lesbian/straight). I didn't think much of it at the time but looking back I think it was interesting. She obviously didn't want to define herself as straight but equally was uncomfortable identifying as a lesbian. I wonder what she would say now? Even if her views remain the same (and I am only guessing about what they are given the way the training was delivered) I imagine she would be under pressure to identify as a lesbian. It's horrifying really, the toxic TRAs claim to want people to self define but actually they do the opposite.

Regarding the above post about the training I attended. The transwoman who delivered was also an activist. She had undergone surgery and explained the process to us. Her main area of activism was about the availability of NHS support for gender reassignment (I dunno what the "correct" term is so apologies if thats wrong now) and the stigma attached to being trans that comes from having to be diagnosed with an "untreatable" mental illness to get support.

It was only 3 years ago (It may have been 4 actually) but it really was a different time in terms of this issue. It's shocking how fast things have moved.

Having followed the whole thread my observation is that Phyllis was never as innocent about this as they presented
Seems to me that Phyllis has their own agenda

I agree.

I won't be gaslighted into calling males she. Sorry.

The fact of the matter is, that at any point (dysphoria excepted) a transwoman could put on jeans and a t-shirt (much as I'm wearing now in fact) and go straight back to being perceived as a male and have all the privilege that entails.

I realise that for some that's going to be hard - much as an agoraphobic would have great difficulty leaving the safety of their house, but for many, it's completely doable - in fact, I've read plenty of accounts of men who put on the suit to go to work and the dress to go out at night.

I can never do that. I could wear a dustbin sack and shave my head and everyone would still know I was a woman.

That is one key reason cisprivilege is a lie.

"Cis privilege" based on dysphoria is extra nonsense. There is already a "category" in nu-feminism/SJW for mh privilege.

Argue that a mentally well person has privilege over an unwell one sure, but don't assume all "cis" females are mentally well. Which is basically what suggesting women have cis-privilege does.

Women are brought up to be deeply uncomfortable with their bodies, to the point of dysphoria - even in those who don't have a BDD diagnosis or an extreme of anorexia.

Though of course I don't want to pathologise womanhood, I'm just pointing out that women already feel this and that counts as a mh issue as much as GID.

One more note - I am obviously not talking about random GNC people, just those with dysphoria.

Miffer

Do you have any links to the over representation of lesbian transwomen? Only I have trouble finding them.

I used to think they were only a handful of these straight guys. But I'm beginning to change my mind.

Even if their presence is only felt because they are shouting the loudest, that still means they are the ones who are going to be exploiting laws and culture for their own ends.

TheHouseOfIllRepute

I'm not sure about Phyllis either. Rank horror at misgendering I can accept if it is directed personally at someone either with gender dysphoria, or someone desperately trying to get you to preserve an illusion.

I find it hard to take it it face value if it is about someone who is not there and doesn't know about it.

On the other hand it is the single, most enforced piece of rhetoric. And jumped on everywhere.

It's becoming akin to the 'blasphemy' of the 1600s.

YY. I'm not buying the misgendering by proxy. It's just a way of silencing women.

Datun

I had a nightmare finding them too, I actually posted them on here. Do you know how I can search my post history? (I'm terrible with the Mumsnet UI)

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15803249

There is the largest study, incidentally I found it a different way this time. I ended up on the blog of a transwoman who had actually done a pretty decent (and accurate from my limited Googling) lit review of this topic. I wont link because some of the pictures on it are dodgy but if you want to find it the name of the blog is AnnieRichards and the topic is sexuality.

Can I just add some light relief....

Riley Dennis is flogging tee shirts on a site that's full of Gender Binary slogans...

Here's what happens when you try to buy one from a non-binary stance....

I hope the transactivists are outside protesting.

Miffer

I can search for your posts, don't want to put you to any trouble! Could you give me the approximate date? And maybe the type of thread.

I'll do it. But if you want to know how to search your history, you click on the search icon at the bottom of the page (iPhone) and type your name into the box. There are various filters.

Oops I am saying that it seems accurate but actually she states that only 85% of women identify as heterosexual which is way too low based on the other figures I have found. Interestingly she doesn't cite a source for this. Her other stuff is sourced though, the links are broke but Googling confirms the ones I looked at.

Having followed the whole thread my observation is that Phyllis was never as innocent about this as they presented
Seems to me that Phyllis has their own agenda

Yes indeed. Wide eyed innocence all the way. Not.

However some posters prefer to answer the points for the benefit of others who may read, which I also understand.

Still not understanding why the gif of someone being bashed hasn't been deleted. It is directed at me personally and I find it threatening and intimidating.

Charlie I meant to retort on your behalf actually. (Not that you need me to!)

Since your first post I've absolutely loved your eloquent, factual and clear writing style. I've really enjoyed reading your replies.

But that's enough of my girl crush. 😂

I found the retorts from Phyllis totally out of the blue. And the gif was frankly childish and verging on threatening. Especially for someone shocked and horrified into demanding apologies for quotes regarding people who won't even be party to a conversation.

Datun

Cross post, I linked it above.

Ta

I'll report it if you would like, Charlie. I don't report much because I think its sometimes good to let some of the more aggressive posts to stand for all to see. Bollocks was it a way to reach out to you.

Call me an old cynic, but trans threads and feminist threads in general always attracts the type of poster who appear out of nowhere, posts for two or three days on general threads and suddenly stumble on a trans thread. They are always saddened, horrified or just plain disappointed at the way we talk about all of their trans friends. Many seem to fixate on one poster who, they claim are particularly harsh. Just an observations, may not be a pattern.

It does seem to follow that track big