Caitlyn Jenner

[Terfinator]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4398858/Caitlyn-Jenner-underwent-gender-reassignment-surgery.html

(Yes, it's the DM - because it's one of the only news sources which is balanced on the trans issue)

Saint Caitlyn has a book coming out in which she reveals that she HAS had gender reassessment surgery. I think a few people on here thought that they hadn't.

Anyway, the DM have some interesting pictures which show how trans surgery works.

As always, the comments are very telling... Fair play to the DM for keeping them open!

I'll just leave this study on the penis inversion method microflora here - don't read on to what I've quoted after the link unless you want to feel ill.

By the same token, I do not recommend reading the link before, during, or directly after eating

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2695466/

"Although this was not a study criterion and therefore not scored, a foul smell of the vagina was observed in most [transsexual] patients."
"based on the criterion of a departure from a normal lactobacilli-dominated microflora, all patients in our study would qualify as having bacterial vaginosis-like microflora."
"Frequent episodes of malodorous discharge were reported by one in four women and malodour was even more frequently observed upon gynaecological examination, which in turn might relate to the presence of faecal bacterial vaginosis-like microflora."
"We identified on average 8.6 species per woman (range 4–14). The species most often found were Bacteroides ureolyticus (n = 10 women), Corynebacterium sp. (n = 12), Enterococcus faecalis (n = 13), Mobiluncus curtisii (n = 10), Staphylococcus epidermidis (n = 19) and Streptococcus anginosus group spp. (n = 16). The neovaginal microflora of only one woman contained lactobacilli. Neisseria gonorrhoeae could not be not cultured.
There was no correlation between dilatation habits, having coitus, rinsing habits and malodorous vaginal discharge on the one hand and the presence of a particular species on the other hand."

Also for the methods that use the scrotum to form the internal pocket:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4893513/
All bolded emphasis mine.
"The use of hair-bearing flaps in this procedure may result in postoperative intra-vaginal and intra-urethral hair growth (1). This undesirable side effect is associated with irritation, infections, hairball and calculi formation , and ultimately a lower patient satisfaction with genital GAS (2-4)."
"While no technique achieves 100% permanent removal of all unwanted hair, electrolysis and LHR are the preferred treatments for permanent removal because of their higher efficacy. Surgeons performing genital GAS require preoperative permanent hair removal from any skin area that will either be brought into contact with urine (e.g., used to construct a neourethra) or be moved to reside within a partially closed cavity within the body (e.g., used to line the neovagina) (13-15). Hair within a neourethra will obstruct urine outflow, promote urine retention within the urethra, and often become encrusted with stone and sebaceous debris —all of which increase the risk of urinary infections and post-void dribbling of urine. Hair within the neovagina serves as a nidus for infection and encrustation of debris."
"Patients should be informed that each treatment will target existing hair bulbs, but that resting (telogen) follicles will grow hairs in between treatments until all the follicles have been treated. Patients should be aware that, in some cases, hair may regrow years later —though late onset hair regrowth is generally more sparse, thinner, and paler (21)."

Holy Molly, that's a whole load of grim.

No wonder there are so many angry transwomen on Twitter etc, hate speaking on women and lesbians, if this is the mess they are dealing with. Almost makes me feel sorry for them. Almost.

You don't think that people aren't made aware of the issues prior to surgery and the potential complications?

There's also good advice on cleanliness and health. Because - as you have pointed out - it's not a perfect solution. It's a complicated surgery which carries risks and needs long term care. Just like other surgeries people undertake.

ego

Was going to add links, but I see Scrumplestiltskin has done that already.

Not sure how I was misinformed.

You don't think that people aren't made aware of the issues prior to surgery and the potential complications?

There is a lot of misinformation online. Things like saying one had an orgasm as he came round from surgery due to the wadding, doesn't help.

Datun yes there is, but surgeons actually have to be licensed and follow a code of practice to operate. That includes giving full and accurate information prior to obtaining consent.
Caitlyn Jenner would be able to access the top surgeons, and more importantly, have the means to sue if anything went wrong due to any kind of negligence. Therefore we can assume that Caitlyn was fully informed.
Personally I do think legal cases will start happening down the line but it will more likely be due to puberty blockers and cross hormonal treatment than surgery.

Mmm encrustation

Are their male partners allowed to not like the internal hair?

Up thread * This is exactly the sort of info that should be out there, and as loud as the pink brain in blue body chat.

I think much of the language used to con women into accepting MTT as women, also cons men, who have often been let down by mental health services, into believing that they are getting something they are not.

As I have said numerous times before ego, this isn't personal. But you know that.

Caitlin Jenner does not have a 'functioning vagina'. No transwoman does. I'm sorry if that upsets you, but the day transactivists take into account anything that upsets women in the ideology, is the day I might return the favour.

birdlanguage this information is already out there. Howeve, people will read and believe what they want.
If people choose to believe what they read on reddit (or similar) over the advice of their surgeon then thats on them really.

Last one, unless I can find a study on any other methods! Here's another penile inversion study, long-term.
(Although the methods Doctors Suporn and Chettawut use (with scrotal tissue to form the cavity,) may be considered somewhat superior, they also come with their own complications, and need more dilation. Those that use a portion of the bowel result in constant mucous discharge, and a weaker cavity, and are less popular by far. At any rate, inversion is still one of the most common methods.)
Be warned, there are graphic genital and surgical images at the link
www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1677-55382012000100014
"In this group, stricture of vaginal introitus [narrowing of neovaginal opening] was found in 48 (15%) cases, lost of vaginal depth in 25 (8%) and vaginal stricture in 40 (12%). Vaginal wall necrosis was observed in 9 (3%) cases and in 6 (2%) partial clitoris necrosis occurred. 4 (1%) patients presented vaginal prolapse. All of them were submitted to reinsertion of the neovagina using fibrin glue and no further intervention was necessary. 30 (9%) patients underwent a neovagina reconstruction using mesh grafts or skin flaps and 3 (10%) of them received an ileal augmentation because of stricture recurrence.
Dyspareunia was a transitory problem in 5 (2%) patients and 50 (15%) patients underwent a third surgery with resection of residual corpora tissue [remnants of erectile penile tissue that engorges painfully], due to related pain during sexual arousal or intercourse. Clitoral pain was reported in 4 (1%) cases."
"132 (40%) patients presented obstructive voiding disorder due to progressive meatal stenosis [constriction of the urethral opening] after the first surgery, leading to a simple Y-V plastic reconstruction at the second planned surgery. This finding represented the most frequent complication related to surgery. Symptoms ranged from progressive subjective obstructive voiding disorders to urinary retention. The last was observed in only 7 (5%) patients. 20 (15%) patients underwent further corrections due to stricture recurrence, mostly observed 3 to 4 months after the second surgery. Dribbling persisted in 26 (8%) patients after the second operation."
Essentially, this is a major, major operation that is constructing an entirely manmade neo-organ out of bits and bobs (so to speak.) There are bound to be complications, and indeed there are. Happily many of them are fixable, but I have found many stories online of MTF transsexuals who had the surgery assuming it would be a breeze, and now live with permanent pain, an unusable genital region, and/or results they find incredibly aesthetically off-putting.

Why is it always the same select people that take over threads about trans people? Get a life and stop circlejerking over strangers genitals.

I'm sorry if that upsets you, but the day transactivists take into account anything that upsets women in the ideology, is the day I might return the favour

Of course it's not functioning. There's no nerves in there, it can't self lubricate, it needs daily care, it's got lots of risks involved. It can't be functioning.

That's just the way it is. But it's better than having a penis. A reminder that your body and brain are fucked up. That your body fucked up. My body is never going to be the one that my brain has told me it should be.

I am more than aware it's not functioning. But hey, thanks for reminding me of that and explaining that to me.

noeffingidea

The thing is, there is information, obviously. But the number of people who choose to be persuaded by others stated experience has really shocked me.

I think most people can see this surgery as a complicated, difficult and potentially traumatic issue.

I have seen online conversations where someone is expressing doubts, only to be told their worries are groundless.

And on the same site, post-operative trans-women in bits because it hasn't given them the results they were expecting.

However I don't really care whether someone has surgery in order to alleviate their symptoms. But I do care that it is expressed as anything remotely similar to female anatomy.

I'm not saying this is egos experience, I believe she is perfectly happy.

But reading that a neo vagina is better than a natal vagina, cleaner, tighter, always ready for sex, and never says 'no', it, yet again, objectifies women and turns them into nothing more than something to be fucked.

A neo vagina either has the purpose of validation, or to be penetrated. It doesn't 'function' as anything else.

Ego, if the factual information on these threads upsets you, (and I say this kindly, and sincerely,) then maybe it's not a good idea for you to frequent them?
I know there are topics that really upset me due to my personal investment in them, and thus I stay well away. Just a thought

I am more than aware it's not functioning. But hey, thanks for reminding me of that and explaining that to me.

You being offended ego, is what stops women talking about this.

I'm offended that the most famous transwoman on the planet is reducing female anatomy into something it isn't.

I can't help it if me stating facts is offensive.

Women are programmed not to offend. Transactivists rely on it. As soon as someone shows any dissent, they go to any means possible to shut them down.

if the factual information on these threads upsets you

It's not upsetting. It's well known that this surgery comes with risks - just as people have been at odds to point out.

That's why I had to clearly explain the risks to the second consultant before even seeing the surgeon.

But trans people shouldn't undertake this surgery lightly. They also shouldn't describe it as a functioning vagina.

"Fuck hole" is an interesting term someone used up thread.

Datun those are people's perceptions, and you can't police them. Of course there is inaccurate information out there, that is actually true of virtually all surgical procedures.
I do agree that Tumblr, Reddit and various other forums are echo chambers, but at the end of the day people still have to go through the same process as they would for any other surgery. They have the risks and potential outcomes explained to them and they make their own decision about their own body.

Caitlin Jenner does not have a 'functioning vagina'. No transwoman does. I'm sorry if that upsets you

It doesn't upset me. It's just stating the obvious. Just like other people who have other surgeries done have things that aren't like the real thing. I am sure those people who undergo those surgeries know that as well.

They have the risks and potential outcomes explained to them and they make their own decision about their own body.

I agree, I have no objection to what someone does with their own body.

This is directly because of the misrepresentation that Jenner, amongst others, puts forward.

What Scrumplestiltskin as stated is an accurate representation. It is simply to counter what Jenner has said.

Women do not go around on trans sites bashing them. They only ever react to what has come up.

ego has said that Jenner is wrong, she has acknowledged that the surgery is complex and often traumatic, and yet in exactly the same breath has taken offence.

I'm not getting at you ego. I've said before that I admire your stickability on these threads.

But women are being shut down all over the place.