Caitlyn Jenner

[Terfinator]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4398858/Caitlyn-Jenner-underwent-gender-reassignment-surgery.html

(Yes, it's the DM - because it's one of the only news sources which is balanced on the trans issue)

Saint Caitlyn has a book coming out in which she reveals that she HAS had gender reassessment surgery. I think a few people on here thought that they hadn't.

Anyway, the DM have some interesting pictures which show how trans surgery works.

As always, the comments are very telling... Fair play to the DM for keeping them open!

Good advice Rufus.

Phyllis have some from me too.

Phyllis, I should have avoided pronouns altogether at 19.12. Didn't intend to goad you, sorry. Getting tired.

Your friend remains biologically male and is attracted to other biological males. That is same sex attraction, homosexuality. It isn't possible to actually change your biological sex. Datun was addressing the difference between this type of transwomen, not usually a militant activist or a threat to women, and the other type of transwoman who remains attracted to women and can therefore be considered a threat. This type are the ones coercing lesbians to suck their lady dicks and trying to give dangerous drugs to small children.

She's a trans woman - she's had all the surgery, she's registered, she's lived that way for years. She has a house, she's held down a professional job at a blue chip company for years. She has only ever come out for drinks at the pub, never ever goes clubbing. All she seems to do in her free time is go cycling.

She doesn't fit the profile of a homosexual man that has been a trans woman for over 20 years.

Phyllis what's your take on gender identity laws? Like the ones they have in the US now and which allow Danielle to take up space in a womens shelters? The law which also means that if a woman questions what someone who is obviously male is doing in a female space means she is the one who is charged with a hate crime?

And how would you feel if gender identity laws were put in place in the UK? How would you feel about not being able to challenge someone like Danielle in the female changing room at the gym because doing so would be a hate crime?

How many people are like Danielle, though? That seems to be a trans troll. Honestly, Danielle reminds me of a Katie Hopkins or an Ann Coulter. It's not to be taken seriously. Danielle seems to be an obnoxious individual who seems to be getting pleasure out of tormenting people, she doesn't reflect the transgendered community.

Yet Danielle still took up space in a woman's shelter despite being clearly male.

I know the justice system is absolutely fucked in the US, but surely they can do something about that. Someone needs to put more processes in place.

Danielle doesn't reflect the trans community, no. However it's not so much trans that's the issue here, it is self identification.

Gender identity laws and policies will allow any man to self identify his way into female spaces for questionable motives. This is already happening in the US where self identification laws have already been passed.

Phyllis, you have to separate 'sex' from 'gender'.

Sex is biology. Male/female. XY/XX. Reality. What you are.

Gender is socially constructed. Masculine/feminine. Cultural. What you are perceived to be by your society.

If it's any consolation, it makes all our heads spin.

It's like banging your head against a brick wall.

Phyllis- "i can understand a University taking that stance because it doesn't sound inclusive to me.". How inclusive should a lesbian society be and still remain a society for lesbians. You say you'd call the police if you found Danielle in the ladies, but unless they had a history of of abuse, MTT like Danielle should be welcomed with open arms into a group for lesbians?

BigDeskBob, if we're getting hypothetical, I do not believe that anyone like Danielle is going to be registered and going to a University and joining a society like that.

If anyone joined a group and then started being abusive or intimidating, the student union would be able to remove that person from that group.

If anyone joined a group and then started being abusive or intimidating, the student union would be able to remove that person from that group.

You mean like when transwomen harass lesbians to have sex with them.

Oh wait...

Honestly, the only memories I have with trans and lesbian from my own experience is a cis lesbian being into a trans woman who wasn't interested and a cis lesbian who chased a trans woman until they ended up in a relationship and then that cis lesbian became ambiguous with their gender identity.

I am only speaking from my experience.

Stop using the word cis. It's fucking offensive.

transgenderreality.com/2016/12/22/shallow-creepy-fetishist-of-vaginae/

This site really highlights the issues with a lot of the people who are latching onto transsexual peoples plights in order to be...well...men. As stated earlier, these people are the problem. Not transsexual people.

AVirginLitTheCandle, it's what I'm used to. Can we stop referring to trans women as he and him? I'm still in shock that my trans woman friend was referred to as he and him on here.

I am a woman. I'm not a fucking cis woman.

A lesbian is a lesbian. They are not fucking cis lesbians.

Someone who is biologically male and attracted to women is not a lesbian.

Phyllis please stop using "cis". Many of us women, me included, find it extremely offensive. I wasn't "assigned female at birth" like being picked for a team, I AM female.

Cross posted, sorry. Have vomiting small daughter and am reading in between cleaning up sick (O joy).

I found it very offensive when I first heard it, and then trans people "clocked my privilege" and now I use it all the time with my LGBT friends. I won't use it in here anymore, I'm sorry, but can we PLEASE make an effort to not refer to trans women as he and him, and vice versa with trans men?