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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Caitlyn Jenner

999 replies

Terfinator · 10/04/2017 23:44

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4398858/Caitlyn-Jenner-underwent-gender-reassignment-surgery.html

(Yes, it's the DM - because it's one of the only news sources which is balanced on the trans issue)

Saint Caitlyn has a book coming out in which she reveals that she HAS had gender reassessment surgery. I think a few people on here thought that they hadn't.

Anyway, the DM have some interesting pictures which show how trans surgery works.

As always, the comments are very telling... Fair play to the DM for keeping them open!

OP posts:
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11
Datun · 22/04/2017 09:35

Because nothing captures the spirit of 'suffragette' like a 15-year-old jock in a baby doll nightie putting something in his mouth and pouting for a selfie.

Ktown · 22/04/2017 09:47

The cait thing makes no sense. If she wanted to change in the 80s then why have children in the 90s as a male?
I understand it must have been tough for her to acknowledge herself earlier but staying married and having children and living that life seems completely at odds with her reality. I read she is now in a relationship with a man so surely not would have been a smoother transition to come out as gay first? I don't know I find it all confusing.
Each to their own but I don't understand it at all.

BMacklin · 22/04/2017 10:00

Just watched that vid between Kris and Caitlin a couple of pages back and it's funny how Caitlin asks for the gun back and says it's for personal safety but when Kris questions this Caitlin then says it's because the paperwork to it it filled out in the wrong name and gender etc. This is the trans issue in a nutshell: Asking for things from others saying it's for personal safety (and disregarding anyone else's) when actually it for validation purposes.

CharlieSierra · 22/04/2017 10:50

Ktown it makes no sense because it's not true. History is being rewritten to serve the current agenda. Bruce Jenner was a successful athlete, successful man, attracted to women, a father. To be credible now, Caitlin has to deny all of that, and we are supposed to believe the narrative. Even though it makes no sense. Even though it isn't true.

WhereYouLeftIt · 22/04/2017 12:06

Just in case phyllis is still reading:

Caitlyn Jenner
PhyllisNights · 22/04/2017 12:24

I wasn't still reading, but "Phyllis" caught the corner of my eye when I was glancing "I'm on".

I need to find a way to watch 20/20 from ABC last night. I can't see anything but clips on YouTube - I want to watch the full thing.

illegitimateMortificadospawn · 22/04/2017 12:39

Good graphic, Where.

WankingMonkey · 22/04/2017 13:08

"TAs mostly represent middle-aged men with a sexual fetish." - I think that is uncalled for, though. That is when it starts being problematic.

I don't think this is offensive and it is a view shared by a lot of transsexual people also.

WankingMonkey · 22/04/2017 13:13

Most who are very against the transitioning of children, untested puberty blockers, many whom want help for their mental health problem and are being pushed towards surgeries and hormones instead, many who are called 'truscum' by the transactivists for daring to actually HAVE sex dysphoria and all of whom have been sharing female spaces for years with no issues (if they chose to...a lot have empathy with women and if they do not 'pass' wouldn't dream of it) who are now getting grief due to the 'any man' rhetoric.

RogueBiscuit · 22/04/2017 14:09

www.angelsforum.co.uk/phpforum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9028&start=40

I'm sick of hearing this born in the wrong body bollocks. This website shows that for many men dressing in women's clothes is a nasty sexual fetish. They have an alter ego.They also gleefully discuss stealing female relatives clothes to wank in.

There are thousands of sites where they discuss their fetishes and voyeurism stories.. The nastiest being those that wipe cum on the toilet rolls for unsuspecting women to use. Are all trans people like this? Probably not. But every time I hear them insisting that they should be able to shower next to my little daughter I feel a bit sick. It's literal violence apparently if I object.

If I posted on here that a male relative wanted to shower next to my daughter, get changed near her or hang around while she used the toilet people would be horrified. They'd also think me neglectful and abusive if I allowed it.

But here we are. Women championing the idea that a strange man who says he's a woman should have access to women and little girls. Why do you think they are so utterly desperate to be able to do this Phyllis?

PhyllisNights · 22/04/2017 18:31

I didn't want to get into an argument when I said that being transgender wasn't a mental illness and then people compared it to other disorders. I didn't want to insult anyone or make them unhappy.

However, I'm watching the ABC 2020 concerning Caitlyn Jenner last night. They've just confirmed that the American psychiatric association doesn't believe that being trans is a mental disorder as it doesn't require psychotropic medication.

As for the comments regarding toilets, and I've seen this come up again and again. There has not been any reported instances of transgender people sexually attacking anyone. And I just to go back to this point again, imagine being that trans person and desperately needing to go to the toilet. The embarrassment and discomfort you could face from going into either toilet must be harrowing. What exactly do you expect those people to do, use disabled toilets or wait to get home?

I used to have a different view many years ago, but becoming friends with LGBTQ people, being very good friends with one trans woman, and friends with a few others, has really opened my mind and educated me. As has taking the time to read and follow things on trans matters. I think some of you have cherry picked certain research or beliefs to suit your own opinions, but I'm sure you'd say the same thing about me.

I still think some of the language has been appalling in here. I don't care what your opinion on trans is, it's not socially acceptable to be ignorantly referring to Caitlyn by using male pronouns.

user838383 · 22/04/2017 18:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cuirderussie · 22/04/2017 19:07

Phyllis, it isn't true that there have been no attacks on women by men dressed as women in toilets and changing rooms etc. I don't know why this myth persists. And if you say "but they aren't real transwomen", how on earth are women to know the difference?

CharlieSierra · 22/04/2017 19:08

And I just to go back to this point again, imagine being that trans person and desperately needing to go to the toilet. The embarrassment and discomfort you could face from going into either toilet must be harrowing. What exactly do you expect those people to do, use disabled toilets or wait to get home

The issue here is male violence, not feminists. It isn't women's fault that MtT feel unsafe in male lavatories. Why should women have to feel unsafe to accommodate them? And there are loads of links to evidence of male pattern violent and sexual offending by MtT. I do believe you are a GF.

cuirderussie · 22/04/2017 19:09

Why does this myth persist, incidentally? I'm curious. I had the same (polite and reasonable) argument with a young liberal feminist recently - I like to think I gave her some things to think about. But she came out with the same thing - "no transwoman has ever, ever attacked a woman". It's some powerful propaganda out there that convinces people of such a huge sweeping statement, isn't it? Perhaps it's the old idea of what used to be called a "transexual", a feminine presenting gay man, prevails.

PhyllisNights · 22/04/2017 19:09

We shouldn't make trans people's lives more difficult because of that. It's not their fault. Perverts and paedophiles are going to find a way regardless.

History has taught us about what happens when minorities are singled out and excluded. People will use excuses to fit their own agendas.

PhyllisNights · 22/04/2017 19:11

I am not a 'goady fucker'. I happen to see 'Caitlyn Jenner' as a thread on the sidebar. I had never been into the feminism sub-section and had no intention of ever going in. I came into the thread and expected to at least see some discussion from the other side, but no, this mostly seems to be a thread to bash Caitlyn and promote ignorant points of view about trans.

sticklebrix · 22/04/2017 19:14

Phyllis

the American psychiatric association doesn't believe that being trans is a mental disorder

The American Psychiatric Association has gender dysphoria listed under 'common mental disorders':

www.psychiatry.org/patients-families

cuirderussie · 22/04/2017 19:14

No they aren't Phyllis. It's like saying there's no point in going through security in airports because terrorists are going to find a way to attack planes anyway and how dare they question innocent people like me?

venusinscorpio · 22/04/2017 19:16

We shouldn't make trans people's lives more difficult because of that. It's not their fault.

We shouldn't make women's lives more difficult because of male people's feelings. It's not our fault.

noeffingidea · 22/04/2017 19:16

We shouldn't make trans people's lives more difficult because of that.
So we should just make women's, girl's and transpeople such as curry's lives more difficult instead then?

cuirderussie · 22/04/2017 19:17

quote:

There has not been any reported instances of transgender people sexually attacking anyone.

Are you going to take that back Phyllis? Why did you make that point in the first place?

PhyllisNights · 22/04/2017 19:20

The American Psychiatric Association, publisher of the DSM-5, states that "gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition."

- go to 28 minutes 20 seconds
sticklebrix · 22/04/2017 19:21

Phyllis if you have the time and inclination, take a browse through the links on the gender critical reference thread. Especially those relating to crime.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2877199-Gender-Critical-Reference-Thread

Then come back and talk. I mean that sincerely.

PhyllisNights · 22/04/2017 19:24

I'm not taking anything back regarding the fact there haven't been any reported attacks of transgender people assaulting others in toilets. I just googled it, and saw an article that said there have been zero reports. I've heard so many times that there are no reports, one person from the top of my head who has said that is Whoopi Goldberg when it's been discussed on The View.