Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Caitlyn Jenner

999 replies

Terfinator · 10/04/2017 23:44

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4398858/Caitlyn-Jenner-underwent-gender-reassignment-surgery.html

(Yes, it's the DM - because it's one of the only news sources which is balanced on the trans issue)

Saint Caitlyn has a book coming out in which she reveals that she HAS had gender reassessment surgery. I think a few people on here thought that they hadn't.

Anyway, the DM have some interesting pictures which show how trans surgery works.

As always, the comments are very telling... Fair play to the DM for keeping them open!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
CoolJazz · 21/04/2017 20:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CoolJazz · 21/04/2017 20:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

QuentinSummers · 21/04/2017 22:15

iameatingacurry why change your name? I want curry goddammit

PhyllisNights · 21/04/2017 23:15

I'm not here to wind anyone up. I just seem to have very different opinions and values compared to others.

I accompanied a gay male friend to an LGBT night a few years ago and met a transwoman who had been trans for about twenty years. I learnt a lot from our friendship. I've watched 'I Am Cait' (which is mostly about trans women challenging Cait), 'I Am Jazz', various films and documentaries. I've also read up quite a bit. I'm not saying that I know what it's like to be trans, but the opinions expressed here are very different to the trans blogs/vlogs and what my LGBT friends think.

QuentinSummers · 21/04/2017 23:23

What do you think about the fact Jazz can't have satisfactory SRS surgery as a result of blockers. Her penis will remain the size of a childs so there is not enough material for surgeons to work with. Personally my heart breaks for her. I can't see how she is going to be able to enjoy an adult sexual relationship, all as a result of her parents buying into this "puberty blockers are harmless" nonsense.

kua · 21/04/2017 23:26

Hi Phyliss, there is a lot to read on here. Perhaps, you could take some time and read the responses.

PhyllisNights · 21/04/2017 23:27

Well, I don't believe that people should transition until they're 16 - 18, but anytime I've mentioned that to anyone, they've said it's better for them to do it earlier due to the mental pain it can cause. It's very hard because I'm not in that position myself, I don't really know what to think in regards to that.

kua · 21/04/2017 23:30

Well , if you don't know then don't speak!

Datun · 21/04/2017 23:32

PhyllisNights

Someone like IAmEatingACurry cannot get any support. We have had parents of trans-children here who cannot get any support. Unless they want to subject their children to blockers and surgery.

TAs don't represent them. If they did it would be brilliant. Trying to find a non invasive cure for gender dysphoria would be fantastic.

TAs mostly represent middle-aged men with a sexual fetish. They want to use their penis, want to violate boundaries. That's the whole point of the fetish.

Try and understand. Women are not anti-trans, they are anti idiots who are exploiting it.

Datun · 21/04/2017 23:35

Why don't transactivists, the trans-advocacy people and trans donors used their funds and clout to finance research into gender dysphoria?

PhyllisNights · 21/04/2017 23:36

kua, I am not saying that I don't know. I'm saying that my experience is from people with a different perspective and point of view.

Datun, thank you for that. My trans friend and LGBT friends would find a lot of this offensive, but they're not looking at it from a mothers point of view.

"TAs mostly represent middle-aged men with a sexual fetish." - I think that is uncalled for, though. That is when it starts being problematic.

QuentinSummers · 21/04/2017 23:36

Thing is phyllis noone knows because puberty blockers are so new. So yes, it seems a good idea to suggest children with persistent dysphoria transition early to prevent them developing secondary sex characteristics (if you believe people are "born trans" and it's immutable). But what if that means they don't mature properly and end up stuck in a prepubescent body forever?
Neuroscience shows that puberty is a vital time for brain development and maturity too, it really scares me that people discount this.
If transgender is about identity, surely it's better to wait until after puberty so that the person concerned has developed an adult body and adult sexual function (even if they "pass" less) than to transition early so they "pass" better but risk having a prepubescent psychology and body?

Terfer · 21/04/2017 23:38

@PhyllisNights

This thread is about Caitlyn Jenner. You have not given your thoughts on her, therefore you are de-railing the discussion.

Why does every trans thread get de-railed?

PhyllisNights · 21/04/2017 23:50

My thoughts on Caitlyn Jenner? I think it's an incredible opportunity for trans awareness. She is a rich white republican who was a world famous athlete. There is such a journey to be had, she can learn a lot and others can learn through her too. 'I Am Cait' was a fantastic watch because she spent the whole two series being challenged by trans women on her problematic opinions. It also covered so many different topics from child trans to drag culture impact, etc.

I don't think it was for money or publicity, and I don't think she's a pervert. She wanted to transition in the 80s and it's such a shame that she wasn't able to go through with it. It's sad that it's taken until the age of 65, but hopefully she can enjoy the rest of her years being her authentic self.

Datun · 21/04/2017 23:54

phyllis

"TAs mostly represent middle-aged men with a sexual fetish." - I think that is uncalled for, though. That is when it starts being problematic.

TAs (transactivists) are not campaigning for cures or non-invasive treatment though. They are campaigning for access to women and children. They are the ones who spout the most ridiculous, convoluted, linguistic nonsense.

Look at Iam, a transwoman with no hidden agenda. They are not interested in vociferously campaigning for things which affect women's rights.

Read some more online. 4thwavenow was set up for parents of transgender children. It unearths the cynical pursuit of money in terms of transing children.

We are using transgender people as guinea pigs and the medical profession allows this to happen.

4thwavenow.com/2017/04/03/the-money-is-flowing-to-suck-people-in-vaginoplasty-the-case-of-jazz-jennings/

This is because of transactivists. They have shut down debate, silenced the medical profession and pushed their beliefs like evangelical zealots. And it is very harmful.

Datun · 22/04/2017 00:01

I don't think it was for money or publicity, and I don't think she's a pervert.

She fits the profile of late transitioning (married) male, ie an autogynephile, perfectly.

She admitted to secretly stealing her 10 year old daughter's clothes (it can't be for her to wear, and they would have been intimate clothing).

And yes, I'm sure she wasn't motivated particularly by money, she was motivated by a sexual obsession (that she is now definitely profiting from - she's a Kardashian after all).

WhereYouLeftIt · 22/04/2017 00:15

"Well, I don't believe that people should transition until they're 16 - 18, but anytime I've mentioned that to anyone, they've said it's better for them to do it earlier due to the mental pain it can cause."
So the people you talk to think that transition should happen before you're 16? When still a child? Presumably prepubertal? Give them drugs, mutilate them with surgery, sterilise them before they are adult? Think about that for a bit. Do they tell anorexics that they're fat, too?

Datun · 22/04/2017 00:30

phyllis

This is what transactivists post (Facebook yesterday). This is par for the course. I could link to literally hundreds of these.

Caitlyn Jenner
PhyllisNights · 22/04/2017 00:42

I think you could find comments like that from both sides, though. It's like left wing vs right wing.

I did say to a friend a few weeks ago that I found this to be rather obnoxious...
broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/the-trans-women-who-become-lesbians-after-years-as-gay-men

"Seriously, I used to be a rake-thin, femme, fag bottom, and now I'm a curvy, andro dyke, mostly top. What the fuck?" - that doesn't sound entirely genuine to me.

nooka · 22/04/2017 04:15

I really struggle with the 'authentic self' narrative. In what other circumstances could individuals have lots of cosmetic surgery and be thought of as authentic? The whole trans narrative is about trying to be someone you are not, once you achieve a point of passing (I don't believe that will ever be possible for Jenner) then you are looking to never be recognised as your true self surely?

If there are characteristics that you feel you can't express because you think men can't be nurturing (or any other stereotypical female characteristic) or women can't be aggressive (or any other stereotypical male characteristic) then being your authentic self would be dropping your gender straightjacket and just being yourself.

Not kidding yourself that 'gender confirmation surgery' (what a peculiar and dishonest euphemism that is) is going to transform you into another person that you'd rather be.

Datun · 22/04/2017 07:58

I think you could find comments like that from both sides, though. It's like left wing vs right wing.

You might Phyllis, except it's not women who are making any demands. We're not asking for anything! We are trying to preserve what we have.

This has come out of the blue. After centuries of women fighting for the right to have freedom from men's power over us. They are demanding we cede it.

There is no debate, no rationale. Just a wholesale reinvention of not only what women's rights actually mean, but effectively wiping them out entirely.

Women's rights didn't arise because of, say, dogs, or the weather. It's because of the structural inequality between men and women, dictated by men.

And now women cannot hold a public meeting, for women only, without the presence of a man, if that man demands it.

Aggressive, misogynistic men are rubbing their hands in glee. This is like a dream come true for them.

And they are making such strides. Shutting down women's libraries, no platforming feminists, destroying decades long women's festivals.

Purposefully and deliberately infiltrating every aspect of women's public life. Telling women not only how to be the version of women they want, but to re-write feminism, in order that it centres men.

Wake up.

CharlieSierra · 22/04/2017 08:12

Did you see the teenage boy who was darling of the girls track team recently Phyllis? A fully intact post puberty male took the girls prize. It was inevitable due to his physiology. Is that ok with you?

Datun · 22/04/2017 08:25

THis one charlie? No hormones, no treatment, nothing at all except saying I am female.

Because he looks exactly like the kind of person who understands womanhood...

Caitlyn Jenner
CharlieSierra · 22/04/2017 09:02

That's the one Datun, allowed to take the girls prize due to 'feelings'.

CharlieSierra · 22/04/2017 09:04

I wonder how Phyllis will feel when her precious daughter is denied her prize, or scholarship, or partnership, or place on the board.