Caitlyn Jenner

[Terfinator]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4398858/Caitlyn-Jenner-underwent-gender-reassignment-surgery.html

(Yes, it's the DM - because it's one of the only news sources which is balanced on the trans issue)

Saint Caitlyn has a book coming out in which she reveals that she HAS had gender reassessment surgery. I think a few people on here thought that they hadn't.

Anyway, the DM have some interesting pictures which show how trans surgery works.

As always, the comments are very telling... Fair play to the DM for keeping them open!

Yes, but nobody here is arguing that gender nonconformity (e.g. my daughter has a crew cut and my son likes Barbies) is a disorder. Quite the opposite in fact.

Gender dysphoria (e.g. I want to remove my genitals and believe I actually belong to the opposite sex) is a mental disorder.

Why don't you look at the links I provided? All of those cases are in the public domain. Whoopi Goldberg, well then it must be true. I remember her saying that it was okay that Roman Polanski raped a 13 year old girl "because it was different in Europe", she's clearly on the side of all that is right.

Also starting to think you're a GF, sorry.

Phyllis read the reference thread!

PhyllisNights - What exactly do you expect those people to do

I expect them to use their brains and come up with a solution that doesn't crap all over women's rights. When they have done that I will support them wholeheartedly.

I used to have a different view many years ago, but becoming friends with LGBTQ people, being very good friends with one trans woman, and friends with a few others, has really opened my mind and educated me

I've made the opposite journey to you. I started out wholeheartedly supporting trans rights. It's the feminists on here I thank for my education. I still have a few trans friends but have had to distance myself from others for my own sanity.

it's not socially acceptable to be ignorantly referring to Caitlyn by using male pronouns.

I suggest you look up the meanings of the words 'ignorant' and 'male' and start caring less about what's 'socially acceptable' when your rights are at stake. We all know what's expected of us socially. It doesn't mean it's in our interests to comply with gaslighty bullshit.

The link to the video I just provided had two doctors confirm that being transgender is not a mental illness.

What do you think about the way the media as a whole portrays and talks about trans? Do you just think that is liberal media?

There are plenty of women and girls who would have to go home to pee if they couldn't use women's public loos because they were effectively mixed sex (sex, not gender). Muslim women, for example, or women who have been sexually assaulted and won't risk another assault. Also frail elderly women, those with a baby in a pram who might normally risk a quick wee with the door ajar & pram in sight, unaccompanied younger girls & teenagers. Really, given the high % of women who've been assaulted, that population will massively outnumber MTT. Is it really acceptable to curtail the freedoms of half the population (+ young male babies/children) to make a small % of MTT feel better? Is women's need for safety and privacy worth so little?

I am not a goady fucker. I happen to come across this thread from the sidebar - I had no intention of coming in here and discussing this. I actually had an argument on a facebook page for trans vlogger Kat Blaque last year because trans people were being very rude to my gay friend. It works both ways.

In all honestly, I just think your concerned mothers, but that shouldn't cloud your judgement. If my baby turns out to be trans, it won't be the end of the world, I'll love them all the same. Would I go down the trans root as early as I've seen other people go down it? Probably not.

I don't care what your opinion on trans is, it's not socially acceptable to be ignorantly referring to Caitlyn by using male pronouns.

It's not 'ignorant' to refer to a biologically male person using male pronouns. A person with a penis is male, regardless of what they like to wear and how they feel. Saying that doesn't mean I think they should be harassed or discriminated against in any way. It's just basic biology.

In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

We shouldn't judge disregard one minority because the percentage is small. Trans people get enough hate and abuse as it is, the suicide rates are high for a reason - we can change that by being more accepting and open.

The American Psychiatric Association, publisher of the DSM-5, states that "gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition."

Wooahh! Are you conflating being gender non-conforming with being trans? GNC is totally healthy behaviour, of course it's not a mental disorder.

OTOH, believing you have been born in the wrong body, believing you are a woman when in fact you are a man (or vice versa), believing you need hormones and/or surgery to make your body match a feeling in your head - mental disorder.

What do you think about the way the media as a whole portrays and talks about trans I'm bloody fuming that most of the time they collude in lies and report MtT committing crimes as women.

It's not 'ignorant' to refer to a biologically male person using male pronouns. A person with a penis is male, regardless of what they like to wear and how they feel. Saying that doesn't mean I think they should be harassed or discriminated against in any way. It's just basic biology.

So someone that has been born into the wrong body, with a mind that says female, but a body that says male, should just live a life of repression? It's ok for you to call Caitlyn a he because she was born as a man? That is not socially acceptable, and you know that it isn't. If you're one of these "PC language is a load of bull shit" types, then fine, but most of society doesn't think like that. It's called having manners and having the deceny to show respect for another human being.

We're not disregarding them. It's been said repeatedly on these threads that if trans want to campaign for gender neutral toilets (whilst retaining separate women's facilities for those that want or need them), we will wholeheartedly support their campaign.

phyllisknights so you refuse to examine evidence then, even when people go to the trouble of providing links.Why is that?

PencilsInSpace, go back to that video link and watch it at the point I told you to. ABC News is a highly reputable news broadcaster.

noeffingidea, because I had a glance over the links page and I didn't like the look of the sources. A lot of it seemed to be opinion pieces, and anything that was from a reputable body was just cherry picking particular parts.

I don't think I have seen any negative press about MTT. The BBC love reporting feel good stories on their website, which must be difficult as most MTTs just want to merge into the background and not draw attention to themselves. Apparently.

Phyllis
I just did a quick search on Dr Norman Spack, the male doctor in that video. He raises all kinds of red flags for me, most importantly his controversial advocacy for giving hormones to children below the age of 16. Hormones which could sterilise them and leave them dependent on medication for life!

An Observer interview (linked below, the Guardian/Observer has been largely supportive of transactivists and would have no reason to misrepresent his views) quotes Spack as saying, 'The NHS guidelines currently state that no children be given this hormone treatment until they are around 16. Spack sees the age as arbitrary, and often cruel. “Why wait?” he asks.'

I question whether Spack is impartial when it comes to presenting what the APA actually says. It does say on its website, linked above, that gender dysphoria is a mental disorder.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/13/transgender-children-the-parents-and-doctors-on-the-frontline

So someone that has been born into the wrong body

Go on then, educate me

Please explain how this happens.

phyllisknights seeing as you quoted Whoopi Goldberg as some sort of authority why don't you try googling 'Whoopi Goldberg rape apologist'. Then you might understand why posters on a feminist board don't give a fuck about anything she has to say.

Oh is it Spack in the video? That's saved me wasting a few minutes I'd never get back.

Forgive me Phyllis, but I haven't seen much evidence of your critical thinking skills or fact checking of your own sources. You just come across as spouting the same trans propaganda that we've heard many times.

PencilsInSpace, do you believe in people being born gay? Gay men? Gay women? Bisexual men and women? Anything can happen with conception and the developing stages of a baby in the womb.

phyllis you didn't like 'the look' of it. That doesn't surprise me, given your opinion on rape apologist Whoopi Goldberg.

Nothing to do with trans. Why derail? Is it because your actual point doesn't make any sense?