Do you think some of the driver for "a woman is anyone who says they are a woman" is to do with bad science teaching in the US?

[QuentinSummers]

Just reading this thread on Reddit and loads of the posts are very scientifically naive. I can't decide if posters are being disingenuous or are just very uneducated about basic science.
It got me wondering whether the American thing of teaching creationism as equally valid a theory as evolution has generally undermined science and critical thinking.

Yep, totally identifying as an MRA...

"If you are genuinely a woman or man, why aren't you fighting cis battles?"

What the fucking hell does this sentence even mean?

Beyond

Who cares what it means? It's designed to be goady

What? That literally doesn't make any sense.

Because I'm FtM* the only time my argument is valid is when fighting FtM issues, why is it not the same for you? Maybe a woman's argument should only be valid when fighting for women.

That's good. Because we are fighting for women.

I'm very surprised that my OP has generated this level of sputtering incoherence.

"I am possibly being unfair singling out Americans"

Oh but they make it so easy... 😂

My personal view on America is: it's not more open to gender identity than the UK BUT that businesses and lobbies are more influential on the politics and there is more money being put behind this campaign than other civil rights issues.

Also our media is arguably more influential and widely distributed that any other country's and the media tend to be more lefty, liberal but not necessarily clever about it.. You also have a lot of influential trans people in the media.

Yeah. I don't get it? Feminism started to fight the inequality between the sexes

but now feminists use the biological inequality to victimise themselves.

Um, you've just said the identical thing twice as though one counters the other.

And if only I realised I had victimised myself! There's a name for people who think that.

That's good. Because we are fighting for women.

Implying that women are weak and pathetic creatures unable to defend themselves against trans individuals? Y'all really try to hard to justify your ignorance

Beyond. .

And if only I realised I had victimised myself! There's a name for people who think that.

Yes. And they tend to be misogynists, internalised or otherwise.

And if only I realised I had victimised myself! There's a name for people who think that.

Narcissists, baby boomers, the ignorant, scum?

No SSR. That women as a class are oppressed by men as a class. Feminism 101.

"Anecdata of course, but I have noticed a large chunk of people who are having/on the side of gender issues seem to have been brought up in a highly religious household - where they could have (speculation!) been brought up to believe that a literal soul is popped into their body, leading to an "explanation" of born in the wrong body."

I've always believed that a proportion of religious zealots are not actually religious at all but find the 'rules' of religion (faith not facts, questioning not encouraged) pretty damned useful in justifying their abusive behaviours; using the religion to hide behind. And if you were brought up in such an abusive household, maybe it's easier to find peace if you can totally dissociate your adult self from the abused child you once were. And if that child were a boy and you are a woman (or girl/man), that's got to make the dissociation more complete? And yes, add in the concept of 'soul' - it starts to make sense to me.

I've also wondered - everyone is to some extent gender-non-conforming. But if you're brought up in a community where conforming is rigorously enforced (and religious communities tend to be strong on that) then you are more likely to grow up ashamed of any non-conformity; are you more able to reconcile that non-conformity and shame if you believe you are actually 'the other'?

Can you tell I incline more to the perfect storm than the silver bullet ?

Implying that women are weak and pathetic creatures unable to defend themselves against trans individuals? Y'all really try to hard to justify your ignorance

And 'Y'all' too!

But if you're brought up in a community where conforming is rigorously enforced (and religious communities tend to be strong on that) then you are more likely to grow up ashamed of any non-conformity; are you more able to reconcile that non-conformity and shame if you believe you are actually 'the other'?*

Think that is a really good point.

Interesting ferdinand. I've read that about the money before. It's interesting how the point of view being expounded in political and media lobbying is trickling down into discourse on discussion boards and the "acceptable" line in the public view. I always thought public opinion was more bottom up than top down. Shame the same trickle down effect doesn't work with wealth really

Really interesting post whereyou. Need to think about that.

Is this a mermaids bot? With their inflated suicide stats based on bad data and not mentioning a desistance rate of 80% that makes transitioning children look like gay conversion therapy?

The OP sounds plausible, a trans child seems easier to come to terms with than a gay one for some religious folk.

The OP sounds plausible, a trans child seems easier to come to terms with than a gay one for some religious folk.

I understand that is the perceived wisdom, but why is that? Discrimination is rife in both communities. Why would one be better than the other?

SSR- er, what part of my post did you interpret as that I "would rather my child was dead"? What a ridiculous and callous reply, do you have children? I don't lie to my girls. I tell them the truth- You can wear masculine or feminine clothing, you can climb trees, have long or short hair, put on makeup or never wear any. You can be amazing at science and maths. None of these things makes you male or female. That ship has sailed at conception.

It's must be so hard living in denial that times are changing and people are becoming less smallminded and more open. It's going to happen whether you like it or not, I don't see the point in fighting if you know you're only going to get shunned (and disowned from your families) for your views. Do some yoga or something and stop being miserable old bastards, you're holding us back from progressing.

Interesting ferdinand. I've read that about the money before. It's interesting how the point of view being expounded in political and media lobbying is trickling down into discourse on discussion boards and the "acceptable" line in the public view. I always thought public opinion was more bottom up than top down. Shame the same trickle down effect doesn't work with wealth really

I'd say gay rights went from the top down definitely in the media, but again you have a liberal artsy side that has always been seen as gay friendly. Broadway runs on glitter power

I think the same could be said regarding the civil rights movement as well.