Just when you thought Everyday Transactivism could no longer surprise * title edited by MNHQ*

[mirrorisnotmyfriend]

They come up with this.

First post - Why Transwomen Aren't Biologically Male.
www.facebook.com/everydayfeminism/

The comments are encouraging though, that is, the ones that haven't been deleted. Lots of people questioning and calling this out.

About Riley...

notazerosumgame.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/how-do-they-know-who-to-kill.html

If you are concerned about the Second Reading of the Gender Identity (Protected Characteristic) Bill 2016-2017 scheduled for 24 February 2017 and its impact upon young adults and children please refer to this website for a comprehensive overview and how best to respond to protect the rights of children and young people: www.transgendertrend.com/gender-identity-rights-of-the-child/

"I've heard this current epidemic described as social contagion (on MN I think), it's the most accurate description IMO."

At first, the increase in transgenderism cases appeared to be almost exclusively about girls/women who are sexually attracted to women and have a history of being gender non-conforming (which is itself is extremely worrying, because it suggests that lesbianism is starting to be erased and that society is starting to lose lesbians and GNC women, not to mention the fact that much of what would have been the next generation of young lesbians could well end up sterile and living as lifelong medical patients).

The new thing appears to be a sudden rash of "rapid onset" transgenderism claims among young girls who are attracted to men, not women, and who don't even have a history of being gender non-conforming. To me this has TEENAGE ANGST and SOCIAL CONTAGION written all over it in big flashing letters, yet parents who refuse to go along with this are being attacked as bigots.

Pretty much ALL of these individuals appear to have varying levels of mental health problems and the majority also appear to be on the autism spectrum--comorbidities that appear to be more prevalent among this group than among the "young lesbians" group. The whole thing is just bloody shocking, and they need HELP not permanent body changes and drugs.

Some of these poor individuals (who as I said mostly seem to have mental health issues and generally a lack of social awareness) have apparently been starting to show up on gay men's forums and dating sites, under the impression that they are really gay men, and trying to form relationships with the lads on there. Sorry to stereotype a bit, but if these deluded young women think that most gay guys are going to be lusting over someone who doesn't have a willy, I think they perhaps did not research their target demographic very carefully. What on earth is going to happen to these young women in the long term?

I think we will almost certainly see a lot of detransitions and lawsuits from this group in the future.

mary not being on gay dating sites in totally unaware of this phenomenon, and if it is happening all I can say is jeebus.

I know mtt have long been colonising lesbian spaces, and lesbians have been hurled abuse for not accepting 'ladydick' and for some unknown reason they've gained a certain amount of traction.

There are of course pockets of resistance but here's also actual female lesbians who are accepting this bullshit and regurgitating it to their fellow lesbians and in some case shaming them and ostracising them for refusing to take dick as a legitimate sexual option.

Gay men however, I can't see them giving any ground what so ever and that in itself will be interesting to watch play out. Are ftt going to start shouting bigot and transphobe and pushing their way in until they get traction or just get suicidally depressed that they've been duped and men aren't giving in to them and then either contribute to the suicide stats that will be used to further the trans agenda and encourage more people to trans or slink off and detransition with mutilated female bodies left infertile and horribly abused and abandoned by the trans community?

transmenongrindr.tumblr.com

It's a thing. Not sure what any of these screenshots show tbh, either that lots of men are ignorant about female biology or that there are gay men who want to fuck a man with a vagina

Mary, i know a girl who helped her friend/bf through transition at school. Think she got sucked in (seems to have been a bit of a group thing) feeling she had to save him. Now late teens and as bf (now TW) wants an open relationship to see boys/men -,this young woman has suddenly decided to transition to male. Family have said there was absolutely no sign of it through her childhood and think she is desperate to keep him and beling to her new group.

It's scary that no critical thinking can be applied at all.

Maybe this just the way it will go with young folk. Eventually They and society will all go non binary or nin conforming, drop gender stereotypes and thinking of traditiinsl male and female as the norm. Everything will go, pansexual, genitals no longer matter - open to being attracted to everything. If they grow up seeing this snd being fed this as truth. A brave new world - maybe this is the messy start to a massive shift.

mary and alias

Both your posts have made me think.

The wholesale lie that you can change your sex is very damaging.

Older, more mature people - men, women, gay, straight not only don't buy the lie, they see it for the delusion it is.

I've seen lots of youngsters, some on here, absolutely convinced that a trans-person really is, to all intents and purposes, the opposite sex. They don't see it as merely an accommodation to be made to others, a courtesy extended, a kindness or polite blindness, if you like. They truly believe in this inner gender 'essence'.

The lie is only laid bare when they realise your sex does matter, in the most profound way, like in sexual orientation.

They truly believe they can be the opposite sex. And when everyone else, including sexual partners suddenly doesn't, all that wanting, wishing, hoping and dreaming that your ideal can be attained, crumbles.

The realisation that every bit of social media you have been reading for months has been selling you a lie, must be devastating.

I tried to find out yesterday why there aren't more later transitioning women. I was on Reddit where much of the discussion was about transitioning as early as possible in order to pass. Transitioning as an adolescent was called 'golden'.

There is a huge vested interest in sanitising, idealising and pushing transition for youngsters.

And unfortunately, those wide-eyed kids are buying the dream, hook, line and sinker.

It's nothing short of abusive, in my opinion.

We are never going to reach a genderless, pansexual society because
a) sex is a thing, and relevant to reproduction
b) sexual orientation is a thing, and people are turned on by physical characteristics
c) we live under patriarchy where female people's bodies and repsoductive labour is colonised by male people regardless of whether those people are called cis, trans, non binary or any other made up thing

Datun, I have wondered about Munchhausen by Proxy. Just sometimes.

I wonder how rigid sexuality would be if the taboos were completely gone though. Men who consider themselves straight do have sex with men. Wonder if more folk would be bi or if all shame and social conditioning was lifted.

carole

I did read of one mother of a disabled child in the US who had presented her child with fake medical problems time after time.

She then said her child was trans-, despite her child being mentally unfit to agree, and started a social media campaign to raise money for a double mastectomy.

A savvy journalist exposed her.

So yes, I'm sure it's a thing, but whether it is more prevalent re trans or just jumps on the bandwagon, I don't know. It is, in my opinion, a fast track to attention. But as it also draws negative attention, I'm not sure how that works.

Also I have always held the opinion that if someone is deliberately attention seeking, you really need to ask why? There is usually some inner turmoil, so attention seeking in and of itself is often just a cry for help.

God, everywhere I look this ideology exposes damaged people.

bamb

I'm sure all those who want to experiment, or are on the fence would suddenly see the taboo lifted and feel a lot more comfortable. And then it would all settle down and you would still have the categories we have now, with a few more overlapping.

The majority of heterosexual people don't have sex with the same sex. Likewise the majority of gay people don't have sex with the opposite sex. It's not a common phenomenon.
I really don't think that we are all just closeted pansexuals. Most people have a sexual orientation and care very much what the genitals of their partners look like.

In case anyone is interested - and wondered what the limit is on questions re transgender issue for a webchat- we now have an answer. It's 5.

Yes I saw that Plec. I'm fizzing about it. What's the fuck's the point in a webchat when we are told to STFU about the issues that actually concern us?

I will be impressed if HH does address the issue properly and not fob us off with so called 'progressive' crap. Honestly, I'm left wing in my views but this issue is really challenging my view of many left wingers who are ready and willing to throw women under the bus

Women and children

I've emailed my MP, for what good it will do.

What I find so telling in those tumblr screen shots in despite the trans man clear passing quite well, as soon as he is recognized as female, the same old behaviour patterns click into place. I suppose it makes it understandable why they are then so desperate to be viewed as actual males but really, there is no escape from that shit unless we profoundly challenge male behaviour.

Plectrum - wonder how many questions re Brexit would be allowed? :)

I think it's typical of MN's efforts to stifle the debate on transgender issues - for purely business reasons of course. Numerous questions on the issue illustrates the concerns women have & should somehow alert people like MPs who come here for PR purposes no matter what topic they intend to expose for the masses here, this is a huge concern. But, MN don't seem to want to allow that picture to emerge. Which brings us back to the whole trans media watch & how their efforts impact disproportionately the way MN operate. No other topic on MN gets actively moderated in the way transgender threads do. MNs whole ethos of being here to 'make parents' lives easier' goes out the window if you have concerns over a child with GI issues, or you have a child whose parent has decided to transition. All without an actual definition of what is considered transphobic.

I don't envy anyone trying to operate a business with that in the background but I'm getting sick & tired of the blatant stifling of genuine concerns women have, the silencing of our voices to allow transgender rights to erase women's rights & hard fought for protections.

if someone is deliberately attention seeking, you really need to ask why? There is usually some inner turmoil, so attention seeking in and of itself is often just a cry for help.

I've mentioned this before on such discussions, but it's relevant:

At 11-12, DS was deeply, almost suicidally unhappy with who he was, and did indeed say to his GP that he hated himself and wished he was a girl. We were very lucky, in retrospect, that he was just about young enough not to have much access to social media, and that the CAMHS professional who saw him listened to him carefully and then said, in no-nonsense fashion, that he had neither a gender problem nor a mental health problem but a school bullying problem: he was being ostracised and called gay, girly, wimpy, weirdo...

He moved schools. It seemed a huge upheaval and over-reaction, to a lot of our friends, but by god it was less of one than having him well-meaningly encouraged down the route of gender transition.

And an even moderately pro-transition professional could so easily have looked at him and thought it was a clear-cut case - shaggy curls, dainty face; history of dressing in bright, flamboyant, silky clothing (including tutus, of course); love of reading, dancing, singing, cooing over baby animals; preference for avoiding football and playing with his female cousins (while wearing their clothes and hairclips) - I've seen pretty much this exact history online as leading other kids to transition.

He's late teens now: flamboyant, happy, into musical theatre, has a terrific hat collection, loves shopping, has had a couple of teenage relationships (boy-girl: he's not even gay).

He can't be the only one.

I will be honest, I think that stopping the questions about the trans issues on web chats might be the best idea--for the moment.

MPs (and similar public figures) are notorious for being cagey about giving direct, straight answers about even the most uncontroversial issues. The chances of Harriet Harman offering anything other than the most bland, PC responses on transgender-related issues during a Mumsnet web chat have to be utterly remote.

I think we are better off just sticking to talking about this among ourselves and gradually, cautiously trying to raise the issue among people we know in real life. I think a lot of people reached peak trans in the last couple of years, and no doubt there will be more and more as the situations get steadily sillier/scarier (Ian Huntley, yikes). As more people start to raise questions or say "I am not sure about this," there will be more leeway for having these kinds of discussions during Mumsnet web chats and so on.

If we keep bringing the issue up again and again during the web chats, I am worried that MNHQ may start cracking down on trans related discussion on MN as a whole. Which would be awful, because this is one of the few places we can actually talk about this, and because the discussion that has gone on so far has already played a big role, I think, in changing the minds of other women who use this site.

I think you're probably right, Mary.

" I'm getting sick & tired of the blatant stifling of genuine concerns women have, the silencing of our voices to allow transgender rights to erase women's rights & hard fought for protections."

That said...I do hear you. It frustrates me, too.

I don't think we should be just talking amongst ourselves. It's being debated in parliament this week and changes to the law are imminent. We have to bring this to the attention of MPs, even if they are very unlikely to give any straight answers on a webchat.

I think we need to be careful not to bombard MPs with lots of questions on this topic all at once but one or two questions on each webchat is fair enough, given how important and urgent this is.