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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Jack Monroe

325 replies

MercyMyJewels · 22/01/2017 17:52

twitter.com/MxJackMonroe/status/822996532228227078

Welcome back Jack

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5
OrchidaceousRose · 23/01/2017 10:06

I think she's brave. I also think people should be able to explore different aspects of their character in public without being harassed, mocked or labelled either mentally ill or vulnerable. That, sadly, isn't the society we live in.

She tried something and it didn't work for her, or bits of it worked and other bits didn't and she needs to move on again. I think she's fully grasped "fluidity" at least, in a way other people haven't grasped.

I also think that the rigidity of gender roles is a big part of why they are damaging- if there was more ability to be fluid, both within roles and as an individual person, a lot of people would flourish more. Fluidity over time, in response both to self and to changing circumstances is essential to evolution and adaptivity.

OrchidaceousRose · 23/01/2017 10:08

And I've much more respect for someone who says they tried something and it didn't work, than someone who is adamant that they are infallible.

amispartacus · 23/01/2017 10:09

I also think that the rigidity of gender roles is a big part of why they are damaging- if there was more ability to be fluid, both within roles and as an individual person, a lot of people would flourish more

I wonder what that would look like?

Bibblewanda · 23/01/2017 10:19

I don't agree with a lot of what Jack says but I think her heart is in the right place. I like her.

She seems quite intelligent so I'd be surprised if she didn't start seeing the trans cult for what it is.

UnoriginalNN · 23/01/2017 10:23

I like her, I just wish she'd never felt the need to renounce (for want of a better word) being a woman.

Original poster
MercyMyJewels · 23/01/2017 10:29

Un
"I like her. I just wish she'd never felt the need to renounce (for want of a better word) being a woman."

Me too. I think it's the fucked up world we are currently in. Lots of young women are identifying as being male. Why wouldn't they? Who would want to be the big boobed botoxed brainless bimbo stereotype of women that is promoted as aspirational.

I glad that Jack has not harmed herself with hormones and hope she finds peace.

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amispartacus · 23/01/2017 10:34

I glad that Jack has not harmed herself with hormones and hope she finds peace

She is taking testosterone.

I wonder what the gender identity clinics who diagnosed her make of it. Did they get it wrong? Or were they convinced?

Somerville · 23/01/2017 10:44

When she's written about this it has always struck me that she's making the same argument that many of the rest of us are, but somehow at the very end sticking a different label on what that actually means than most of us do.

I'm not explaining that very well, sorry. But my point is that I suspect her views/feelings haven't changed, she's just realised that the label she was being told that her opinion/feelings meant, was wrong.

I'm glad she continued to ask questions. In this post-truth society, the more people asking questions the better, I reckon.

CherrySkull · 23/01/2017 10:45

my opinion has always been that she spends too much time trying to please everyone.. people who try and shove her into a box, or give her labels she doesn't want, she bows to pressure and ends up doing or being something she isn't.

I think this is a positive step towards her reclaiming what she actually feels, not what people tell her she should feel.

Original poster
MercyMyJewels · 23/01/2017 10:47

I know she is ami. She looks well, that's all meant, unlike that poor transman in the recent documentary.

I can't but reflect on how rich Bruce turns into Caitlin and gets Woman of the Year whilst retaining his male only golf membership but Jack gets pelters and is called attention seeking. What's wrong with this picture?

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ScruffyTheJanitor · 23/01/2017 10:54

Why do non binary types all tend to be women that wear men's clothes?
If you're non binary surely it wouldn't matter what you wore or how your hair etc?

How come there's very few men announcing themselves non binary / gender fluid? When men don't they're called cross dressers, transvestites (even perverts)

And why, if you were so keep. tto drop gendered labels, would you write a book called 'A Girl called Jack', surely that's just using the fact you're a girl that has assumed a boys name as a marketing gimmick?

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 23/01/2017 10:59

I am indeed cynical but you may have noticed that I'm not the only one who sees her as attention seeking and ready to jump on any bandwagon to prove what a special snowflake she is.

She got attention for changing sexuality, then going non-binary, then identifying as trans, and now saying she's a woman again.

Give her another few months and she will change again.

Of course she has the right to identify as she likes but let's not applaud her for it.

Original poster
MercyMyJewels · 23/01/2017 11:37

Well she's a confused young woman, like so many others. I'm so glad I'm not a young woman now, I'd probably be off down the transman route too.

At least she is not on Youtube pontificating and demanding we all bow down to accommodate her decrees like some of the transwomen do. That dude in the Magdalen Berns video comes to mind

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Foldedtshirt · 23/01/2017 11:46

Magdalen Berns isn't a transwomen- she's a lesbian pointing out the harm the trans movement is doing to women.

Original poster
MercyMyJewels · 23/01/2017 12:14

I know that. I said "that dude in the Magdalen Berns video"

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Bambambini · 23/01/2017 12:25

Looks like she might be taking a break from twitter due to the reaction.

Jack Monroe
LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 23/01/2017 13:52

Perhaps she would be better dealing with her issues in private rather than public so a break sounds like a good plan

Adarajames · 23/01/2017 13:58

More attention seeking as no media attention for a while? Or an even bigger need to get off social media and get much needed mh support? Needs more help than is getting obviously!

TheFirstMrsDV · 23/01/2017 14:05

I am pretty confused TBH.
JM was on MN explaining that she didn't want to be 'she' and her GF was criticised for being upset about JM's breast binding etc.

But she is all over FB groups showing off her latest ultra fem makeup looks.

I don't pretend to understand gender fluid but wasn't JM pretty insistent that she didn't want to be 'girly'? Confused

TheFirstMrsDV · 23/01/2017 14:08

FWIW I don't 'hate' her.
I think she should allow herself time to go through all the experimentation without making public declarations every time she changes her mind.

She was a non fem lesbian who became a non gendered person who dressed in 'men's' clothing and hated her breasts and then fully made up in fairly glam outfits asking for input on her beauty regime.

No wonder people are a bit eye rolly.

DeviTheGaelet · 23/01/2017 18:09

Oh poor Jack getting the "DIAF, terf!!" Treatment. That's gotta hurt

PencilsInSpace · 23/01/2017 18:27

Oh god Twitter is awful!

Jack, if you read this I hope you're OK Flowers I posted on your 'what is a woman?' thread under a different name. I don't agree with your take on gender but I have always thought you are a thoroughly decent sort.

Welcome back, take a break from it all and write us a lovely cookbook Brew

amispartacus · 23/01/2017 18:54

Oh poor Jack getting the "DIAF, terf!!" Treatment. That's gotta hurt

I don't understand why anyone would post that. What kind of person would do that?

AskBasil · 23/01/2017 19:12

I think she's brave.

She's intelligent enough to know she'll get lambasted for attention seeking.

Because women attention seeking is much worse than men, natch. I still don't think attention-seeking is the worst vice.

And this a million times: "I can't but reflect on how rich Bruce turns into Caitlin and gets Woman of the Year whilst retaining his male only golf membership but Jack gets pelters and is called attention seeking. What's wrong with this picture"

PencilsInSpace · 23/01/2017 19:26

According to twitter, her crimes are:

  1. being on good terms with Julie Bindel - I didn't know this and I think it's fucking ace - it makes me hopeful when I see people on different 'sides' of this mess able to get along and discuss things like grownups.

  2. missing out a comma so that what should have read, '... transgender, woman(ish)' was taken to mean that Jack identifies as a transgender woman rather than transgender and a woman.

I'm not sure why you can't describe yourself as a transgender woman if you are transgender and a woman but lots of shouty trans(ish) people are upset by it. Something about appropriation and throwing transgender women under a bus. Bit ironic really ...