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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Do you think men can be feminists?

999 replies

AVirginLitTheCandle · 01/01/2017 23:39

This may sound like a stupid question but do you think men can be feminists?

I've always thought they can be but I perhaps some radical feminists will disagree with me.

OP posts:
DeviTheGaelet · 06/01/2017 19:19

Feminists seem to focus on two issues: sexual violence and the pay gap....fem debate suggests a narrow minded, polarizing middle class cult that is designed to turn men and women off from having anything to do with it.
This is the kind of thing that makes me question posters. A cursory glance of the threads on this board shows that statement is utter utter bollocks. Yet you and others like you feel free to come on, make an assertion that "feminists mostly......." and conclude with "and that's why everyone hates feminists". It's such a crock, as well as totally boring to read for the bazillionth time.
Come on with a thought through opposing view, backed up either with evidence or common sense, fine.
Come on and talk bollocks about your opinion/"all feminists blah" then you are being an entitled idiot and I really am not going to spend time being polite.
It's weird and all I can think is you and posters like you get a thrill out of annoying women. Which is creepy as fuck.

CharlieSierra · 06/01/2017 19:22

At present, the law says you are wrong

And that is why I actively campaign in RL to change the law.

AnotherRandomMale · 06/01/2017 19:23

pooch

I wouldn't consent to do my job if it was unpaid either.

What makes sex so different to say, a massage? That is also a physical service you can pay for.

makeourfuture · 06/01/2017 19:24

"Regaining ground will be very hard....and those energies could be used for further progress."

Quoting myself....

I'm no white knight, but this thing with prostitution/porn is a fine example...we should be past this. I find now on other boards arguments of whether evolution occurred...

FloraFox · 06/01/2017 19:25

You don't know the difference between sex and a massage? Confused

qwerty232 · 06/01/2017 19:26

I'm in two minds pooch. I have every sympathy with women who are driven into prostitution out of desperation or press-ganged into it by gangsters. Obvs they're victims. But women who freely choose to become independent sex workers in the knowledge that this will entail doing stuff they don't like with guys they feel repulsed by have to be credited with at least some moral responsibility for that.

CocoaX · 06/01/2017 19:31

Re the agency of women selling sex.

Agency is not power. People with agency do not have power. They exercise agency, not power. Nobody talks about white male agency, because white men do not need it. It is a term to signify that people in subordinate positions can still exercise choice within the options available to them. Not that they create the options.

PoochSmooch · 06/01/2017 19:31

Well, whole institutions haven't been set up where you have a big ceremony with all of your family and friends and agree to only give massages to one person for the rest of your life, have they? So it suggests we attach a meaning to sex that we don't attach to other physical interactions.

Your job also probably doesn't regularly expose you to risk of violence, STDs and pregnancy. You probably also don't have to let your clients stick bits of themselves up your bum and call you names while they do it, while you pretend to like it. I'd suggest there aren't many parallels between prostitution and your job, whatever it is.

DeviTheGaelet · 06/01/2017 19:31

What makes sex so different to say, a massage? That is also a physical service you can pay for.
Grin
What makes rape different to an unsolicited arm rub? The same, right?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 06/01/2017 19:32

So would you have 'punters' tried and convicted of rape? Or is this 'rape' as an abstract rather than legal concept?

I'm sure we all know that legally bought sex is not rape as the law defines it. Many people, men and women, think morally and ethucally it is. The Nordic system, were introduced, would require a new statutory offence of purchasing sex

Is a gay male prostitute automatically a rape victim?
What about a heterosexual male prostitute/gigolo?

Why do you think I would want sexual exploitation of men to be treated differently?

PoochSmooch · 06/01/2017 19:33

And people don't get trafficked into being accountants or dentists, do they? If prostitution is so brilliant, why do women need to be coerced into it so often?

qwerty232 · 06/01/2017 19:34

Devi I did acknowledge valid points that feminists make and am aware it's a broad church.

PoochSmooch · 06/01/2017 19:34

totally agree re agency cocoa. Likewise with empowerment, which is what people who have no actual power get.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 06/01/2017 19:36

makeourfuture

I'm sorry your interesting points about the interaction between Socialism and Feminism have been buried.

I would find it difficult to ally with a movement which required Socialism. However you said you were American- possibly Socialism to you is not what I might be thinking of.

qwerty232 · 06/01/2017 19:42

Pooch, as a man what power do I have?

PoochSmooch · 06/01/2017 19:46

I agree about the genuinely interesting arguments getting buried here, under the bajillionth discussion justifying male sexual entitlement.

Your point about the rolling back of rights is a good one, make. I worry about this too. I really believe we're in a new backlash.

What do you mean, qwerty? Are you picking up on my point about power vs empowerment? If so, then that's not about what power any one individual might have, that's not what I'm getting at.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 06/01/2017 19:48

At present, the law says you are wrong

And that is why I actively campaign in RL to change the law

As indeed do I

But the woman who i knew who made a shedload as an independent escort, in addition to a well paid job, has to take ownership for her decision

I agree and I do think that a woman who has other options and other choices needs to consider that she may be contributing to the idea that "sex work" is just another form of work.

Beachcomber · 06/01/2017 19:51

For the hard of thinking who don't understand what the difference is between sex and other activities, here is an example.

My DH is currently sitting on the sofa and massaging our 10 year old's feet. This is nice.

He is not having sex with her. If he were this would not be nice at all.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 06/01/2017 19:56

Slightly OT but in my recent reading of MGOTW and etc - the way it is framed on there is that e.g women spend more money than men - but they earn less, this seems to be accepted here too I think. Their version is that women have "sexual capital" than me do not and this seems to be the basis for a lot of their anger. Prostitution they regard as the most honest relationship between man and woman since all the others eventually amount to the same thing. The fact that most prostitutes do not keep anything like most of the money they "make" is apparently lost on them....sometimes i despair.

qwerty232 · 06/01/2017 19:56

Well if your point does not concern how much power individual's have, then what does it mean? Or more specifically how can it be meaningfully applied to social situations composed of individuals?

qwerty232 · 06/01/2017 20:00

Really struggling to understand what point you're making there beachcomber.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 06/01/2017 20:06

Their version is that women have "sexual capital" that men do not

I think that was Camille Paglia's line too (I say "think" as I was never quite sure what she was on about); all that stuff about strippers being worshipped as goddesses.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 06/01/2017 20:13

I have to admit that my own position on this is somewhat old fashioned and a little conflicted. I do think "sex" is something special. But i accept that many people apparently do not. The trouble for me is not with being paid for the act (as that is a personal thing), it is the whole "men want sex more than women so there is a gap that can be filled" which is filled by eastern european teenagers. i.e. all the stuff that goes with it rather than the singular act of having sex for money. If that makes sense.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 06/01/2017 20:14

i.e. it is difficult to see how legislation could be based on my individual distaste for the idea of having sex to earn money.

Beachcomber · 06/01/2017 20:16

Are you really qwerty ? Hmm

There has been a suggestion on this thread that prostitution is no biggie cos having unwanted sex is a lot like giving a massage or doing a job. There are posters who claim not to see the difference between giving someone a massage and letting someone put their penis in your mouth, vagina or anus.

My point is that I think we can all see the difference between my DH giving my DD a massage and him putting his penis in her.

Indeed it is bleedin obvious what the difference is. Right? Easy.

So all this posturing about prostitution being like massage or anything else is utter bullshit and either intellectually dishonest or stupid. OK?

HTH.