Do you think men can be feminists?

[AVirginLitTheCandle]

This may sound like a stupid question but do you think men can be feminists?

I've always thought they can be but I perhaps some radical feminists will disagree with me.

I also believed it was bad form to go trawling through every post a user has ever made so that you can cast it up

You asked where you said you were a man. I have been on a few threads with you so I kindly answered your question.

Sparrow

What i mean is that is that it is not real in the sense it is something that has been made up. I am surprised that you would find the view that a persons gender is not relevant to be controversial. Says a lot.

No, it doesn't. Gender is totally relevant to feminism because women and men are socialised into their gender from birth and that is the source of the inequality between them. I can't believe I'm having to explain this tbh.

Says a lot

What says a lot is that someone who is not a feminist - and has spent a lot of time arguing against things that feminists are fighting for - spends a lot of time on the feminist chat boards.

I do find that a bit weird.

The Gender Of The Author Who Wrote This File is: male 59.39%

From the textual analysis link which SpeakNoWords posted analysing a post of mine on this thread.

Wrong as to my sex and my gender presentation. Of course you will have to take my word that I am female xx chromosomed.

Sorry if my tone reads as dismissive or patronising. I have an unfortunate argumentative style of writing. My views are all totally genuine. My background is an obsession with equal opportunities - how fairness interplays with education systems, information assymetries across society and behaviour more generally. How the law & morality deals with these things etc.

Feminism, as a philosophy, is a huge part of many of these ideas. To be perfectly honest the idea that I could ever not be a feminist is ridiculous to me personally however offensive that may be to any reader here. I have the right and freedom to associate myself with whoever and whatever I like. No-one has the right to dictate my political beliefs to me.

To answer the original question posted in this thread - :

As a philosophy and cause, feminism must be inclusive of men. Otherwise it is eating it's own bottom.

As a community, 'feminists' may be exclusively female if the purpose of that community is to share and build upon common experiences and inextricably related causes; experiences that no man could ever have had.

REALNESS.

I do find that a bit weird.

It behoves us all to take an interest in the activities of groups who want to impact our lives and those of our families.

REALNESS

Gender is totally relevant to feminism because women and men are socialised

Pull the other one. Many regular posters on here take enormous pride in going about how they do not conform to gender. I don't recall you telling them that sadly, they had actually failed and now could not change.

I think that all that the textual analysis tool can do is analyse masculine and feminine styles of writing. So it can tell you which socially constructed gendered style of writing your writing conforms to, rather than the gender (or actually, sex) of the author. In essence, gender norms/stereotypes have been coded into this tool as a starting premise.

So do you go onto Alt Right/Right-wing/Liberal/Lefty/Marxist/communist groups and tell them how they are doing things wrong? Or black activist groups and tell them how they need to include whites more?

Or is it just feminism that deserves your special, special attention girl?

'To answer the original question posted in this thread - :

As a philosophy and cause, feminism must be inclusive of men. Otherwise it is eating it's own bottom.'

I don't see any evidence for this. Men have never once pro-actively participated in the liberation of women, in fact they have constantly stood in the way of it. The only way change has been brought about is when women have campaigned and fought and demonstrated. Men have never even tried to assist in any practical way. And yet they demand to be called feminists. Fucking do something first, something actually practical and helpful first for fuck's sake!

And also - isn't assuming that a person will behave in a certain way, have certain interests, dress a certain way - all gender stereotyping ? Something you would presumably be very much against, and yet ..here you are patting yourself on the back because you believe you have confirmed your own gender bias.

I think it is a lot easier to recognise male/female writing when talking about the oppression of women than it would be if we all started writing about 16th century fransiscan monks (or whatever).

'Pull the other one. Many regular posters on here take enormous pride in going about how they do not conform to gender. I don't recall you telling them that sadly, they had actually failed and now could not change.'

Eh? I don't think you understand what I'm talking about at all girl.

Or is it just feminism that deserves your special, special attention girl?

No it isn't actually, although I don't personally regard black activist groups as desiring of the level of change feminists do so don't currently see any reason to overly concern myself with it.

Eh? I don't think you understand what I'm talking about at all girl.

So you aren't patting yourself on the back because you think you correctly identified a man or woman based on your own views of how men and women ought to conduct themselves ?

I'm really pleased that you feel feminism has such influence girl.

'So you aren't patting yourself on the back because you think you correctly identified a man or woman based on your own views of how men and women ought to conduct themselves ?'

I never said anything about you being a man or a woman. I have no idea what sex you are. I was talking about gender as a social construct.

Apologies sparrow - indeed you did not.

What change

I thought feminism was getting the sexes to be equal

Do you not want that girl

Are you honestly threatened by feminism?

Not having a go, just honestly curious

Oooh too many "honestly"

Makes me seem not honest

i am honest

Honestly

"It behoves us all to take an interest in the activities of groups who want to impact our lives and those of our families."

So what are you frightened of?

Actually, I think that's where my cognitive dissonance came from. There is always a slight feeling of being undercover in enemy territory about your posts. You were so very careful (mostly) not to reveal your sex that it felt a bit..off... for want of a better word. But I certainly didn't treat you differently because I thought you were a man. I am pretty outspoken with non/anti feminists whatever form they take. And as I said, there are plenty of women who have said much worse things than you do!

Many regular posters on here take enormous pride in going about how they do not conform to gender. I don't recall you telling them that sadly, they had actually failed and now could not change

Gender is a social construct, which people (male or female) can challenge, resist, negotiate or embrace... So, it does not matter one bit whether I take my own car to the garage or dig my own garden or whatever, the feminine name and physical appearance I have, will predispose people to make certain assumptions about me. One of which being, if I wear my hair short and hang about in jeans and flat shoes, that I am not very 'feminine'.

personally I object to any suggestion that I conform to my gender, or not, because I would rather there were no gender stereotypes or gender-based ideals to label people with.

A social construct is not real in the sense that it is not a material object or difference, it is not static, it is not a thing you can touch or which cannot change; it is real in that it is a set of ideas and concepts which govern society - 150 years ago, people would have thought my ovaries would shrink if I read too many books, therefore study was seen as an unwomanly thing. It is real in so far as it has a bearing on men and women's lives and opportunities.

I would be interested to hear how a persons sex can be inferred from their written communication.

I would, too, because else board in the past, people have assumed I am male because of what/ how I write. I definitely am not (and anyone who disagrees is welcome to take my current period pains.) I infer from this that some people have clear ideas about how men and women write, which all fees back into expectations and socialisation around gender.

I don't recognise it myself, but then I am also not one of those who can recognise PBPs and known trolls just by their writing style. But I think it does say something about how gender is wound up in everything, and feminists or not, it's better for everyone to get away from the stereotypes, because usually they're neither helpful nor accurate. And everyone can move away from stereotypes if they want to, but often they don't. Not that this helps with the initial question either way.