Do you think men can be feminists?

[AVirginLitTheCandle]

This may sound like a stupid question but do you think men can be feminists?

I've always thought they can be but I perhaps some radical feminists will disagree with me.

Odd that you're keen to engage with feminism, but don't want to disclose your sex in case you get treated differently, girl. Quite ironic, really.

Your tone and style of writing is one that I read as male, FWIW.

I do call other men out who are overtly sexist. I've never been with a prostitute or to a strip club. I do my share of the housework.

How do you assess what is overtly sexist (or sex Istanbul, as autocorrect prefers)?

"I don't want to be called a feminist because a sizable number of feminists are in my view anti-male misandrists who I do not wish to be associated with."

Could you give some examples, please?

I do call other men out who are overtly sexist. I've never been with a prostitute or to a strip club

I am not against the existence of prostitution or strip clubs anyway - the idea of frequenting them just doesn't do anything for me. I am a committed liberal and believe in free choice and individual rights and responsibilities. If adult women through their own free choice want to sell sex or take their clothes off for money, and men want to pay for it - or vice versa - it should be up to them

Oh dear. I don't have the strength (and I'm trying to avoid spending another day of my holiday on here) to go into why I so vehemently disagree with the above. And I say that as a non-feminist, committed liberal.

Not going to but still fine with strip clubs and prostitution doesn't quite pass my decent standards of human behaviour test.

Where have I confirmed my sex

You confirmed it on the recent feminism thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2806959--to-feel-depressed-that-only-7-of-UK-identify-as-Feminist?pg=7&messages=100

Charlie

And why would women need protection from men? Oh yes.....

What would you have done, got them to sit around and have a "consent workshop" ? I really don't understand what you are on about. So men are the cause of all of the worlds problems in your opinion. We get that.

Devi

Who's "we" ? Thought men should bog off as feminism doesn't affect them ? Who's supposed to enact all the punishments for these crimes

What encouragement do white men need ? Feminists and liberals have been telling us for generations that they don't need help and are more privileged than white working class girls, black people, Asians you name it. Could that have anything to do with it

"Not going to but still fine with strip clubs and prostitution doesn't quite pass my decent standards of human behaviour test."

This.

And I notice you skirted round the porn question as well.

And what does "overtly sexist" mean? It sounds a little different to "using sexist language" to me.

Your tone and style of writing is one that I read as male, FWIW

haha. Must be because of my brain.

ami

Thats the "implication" i was on about

Actually, I would be interested to hear how a persons sex can be inferred from their written communication.

Girl is one of the most disingenuous, slippery posters I've come across on here. As pointed out, you said black activists don't want a revolution. That was the only reason why Mugabe's revolution was brought up. To show you were talking bollocks vis à vis that claim. Not to hold it up as a great example of a revolution.

Actually, I would be interested to hear how a persons sex can be inferred from their written communication

"Are you suggesting that my wife and I did not discuss this or that when we did she was not honest about her wishes ? That's a new one"

most don't appear to be.

Says who ? Have you any idea how many times the conversation even took place ? Again your assumption is that most women who want to stay at home and look after their children did not have a choice. Many people don't give a shit about their careers.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2807387-AIBU-What-exactly-is-feminism?messages=100&pg=3

Things like travelling alone, even walking in the countryside alone present anxieties for women that are not a concern for men.

You can never make it the case that women will never fear men IMO. How would you change society so that men are not capable of harming women ? Because without that I fail to see how you could ever make someone not frightened of men if that is how they see them.

Walking home alone i might also be frightened a large man might assault me. Should he just walk by himself so I don't have the fear ? I've been assaulted a few times.

You have slipped up a few times to be fair girl

How one answers the question "can men be feminists?" depends on which frame of analysis is being applied.

I support radical feminist analysis which is a class analysis. Men as a class oppress women as a class. Men benefit from this oppression of women by achieving unearned sex privilege. Therefore, logically, no, men cannot be feminists. One cannot benefit from the oppression of a class of people and simultaneously claim that one seeks to end the oppression and is against that oppression. The idea just doesn't make sense, "feminist man" is currently an oxymoron.

So from a rad fem point of view a man can support feminism, be a feminist ally, disagree with gender, be against patriarchal values and society, etc. but men will only be able to claim the title of "feminist" for themselves once they, as a class, no longer benefit from misogyny/patriarchy/institutionalized sexism/gender/etc.

This point is of importance to radical feminism as it draws attention to the fact that men benefit from male violence against girls and women regardless of whether they, as individuals, are violent themselves. It highlights that patriarchy is a social order within which we all live and operate - disagreeing on an individual basis with that social order does not make it go away or cease to exert influence on every aspect of our lives. No man is an island.

I've no idea if there's an academic discipline in it, but I read your posts and I think "male poster", girl. Perhaps its the content? It does make your NN helluva weird. I've thought this before this thread, and I see I am not alone.

I don't really give a toss, to be honest, but you're being disingenuous to pretend that you're only doing it because men don't get a fair hearing on a feminist board. I'm tempted to say man up.

Actually, I would be interested to hear how a persons sex can be inferred from their written communication

I think it is quite dangerous to do so. I reported a poster on FWR who was insisting some one was a man. From the alleged "man's" posting history "he" was either playing a blinder with "his" fictional online character, or , "he" and "his" children were actually survivors of domestic abuse and had shed a violent and coercive husband.

Anyway I really must go and do something else so if anyone of either sex wants to tell me to bog off , feel free!

Some academics at least have been looking at guessing the gender of written text:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.newscientist.com/article/dn20581-gender-spotting-tool-could-have-rumbled-fake-blogger/amp/?client=safari

*guessing the gender of the author of written text...

YY Beachcomber. Why is this so hard for people to grasp? I understand why people might not agree, but a lot of posts have been "I can't imagine why anyone would want to say a man can't be a feminist".

Well you're not very imaginative then, are you.

I don't really give a toss, to be honest, but you're being disingenuous to pretend that you're only doing it because men don't get a fair hearing on a feminist board

I'd go further and call it a deliberate attempt to deceive in order to troll the board.

I remember being very relieved when I realized that Girl was a man because the cognitive dissonance was really troubling. And not because he says anti feminist things. There are plenty of posters who I am as sure as I can be are women that are much worse.

Well it's quite clear that men can't be feminists. Why they would want to be given this discussion I've no idea.

Because they can do it all so much better?

The point, Derxa, is that we don't need them to be. Women are quite capable of acting on our own. Of course we're only allowed to do so because men let us have our little clubs

The lengths some people will go to in order to try and prove that someone is a man so they can discredit their opinions on that basis is nothing short of pathetic. I also believed it was bad form to go trawling through every post a user has ever made so that you can cast it up. I'm not about to say what my sex is tyvm, other readers will have to decide for themselves and whether it is relevant or not.

cognitive dissonance was really troubling

What's actually troubling is how different you think men and women actually are given your stated belief that the only thing that makes a woman is ones sexual organs. Gender is not real, so you can hardly guess it from something I typed on a keyboard.

'Gender is not real, so you can hardly guess it from something I typed on a keyboard.'

Gender is not real? As in, no one in the whole world thinks that boys and girls are different and that girls wear pink and boys wear blue etc etc etc.

I assure you gender is a very real social construct used to divide the sexes and assign an inferior role to women. When a person talks and writes their perception of their role becomes very obvious.