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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

We're getting 'Gender Neutral' toilets at work

190 replies

LucilleTwo · 16/12/2016 20:02

Have name changed for this as it could be identifying from my previous posts where I work and of course I don't want to get outed/sacked.

So today we had an email to inform us all that next year the toilets in our building will all be changed to 'gender neutral'. I've heard lots about gender neutral toilets on mn but always thought it would never happen in my workplace, where despite being a very large multinational in financial services, we can't even seem to get computers to work correctly half the time. I don't see our company as being particularly modern or progressive but I guess there is quite a good equality vibe going on (mostly).

After the email, nobody seemed to be bothered other than me, although once I asked my female colleague next to me if she was OK with it, she wasn't either but didn't want to make a fuss. My boss came over and I asked him why this was happening, he said he wasn't sure but I'd just have to get over it. He also admitted he wouldn't be comfortable coming out of the toilet when there was a woman there at the same time.

Another female colleague then piped up that she doesn't have a problem with it, there's nothing that would worry her about washing her hands at the same time as a man and anyway she lives with male housemates and doesn't mind that. I didn't really know how to answer that without being rude so I just remained silent and seethed about it in the car afterwards.

I'd appreciate everyone elses view on this as I've been made to feel like I've got a problem for no reason. I know deep down I'll have to suck this up and it makes me feel frustrated that I don't have the power to change this. Tried to talk to DH about it but he didn't really get the issue and my DM said 'oh well, you can't say anything these days' and that was that! I feel like I have no one to talk to about this at all.

OP posts:
PlonitbatPlonit · 15/02/2017 00:46

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, and can't be bothered to read through the whole thread, but this change could be against the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992. Regulation 20, paragraph 2c, which states. "sanitary conveniences shall not be suitable unless
separate rooms containing conveniences are provided for men and women except where and so far as each convenience is in a separate room the door of which is capable of being secured from inside." (i.e. not 'cubicles').

www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/toilets.htm

ChocChocPorridge · 15/02/2017 06:31

The hand washing thing annoys me (slight derail) - women are much more likely to wash their hands, despite not actually having to touch any of the parts of themselves that do the peeing. Men are much less likely to wash their hands, and if doing a standing wee, will have been holding their penis to do so.

Sitting down to wee is cleaner for the toilet, and cleaner for the hands they're probably not going to bother to wash. I think we need a 'sit down to pee' campaign!

Caprianna · 15/02/2017 06:42

I would mind this. The hand washing thing as mentioned by previous poster. Men touch their willies and use door handle of cubicle which is a yikes for me. They also piss all over the place. Everyone who has ever been to a toilet on a plane knows this. I would also not like to share the toilets with a man I don't know when working late.

sashh · 15/02/2017 06:46

Do you have disabled/accessible toilets? Are they gendered?

CharlieSierra · 15/02/2017 07:15

Do you have disabled/accessible toilets? Are they gendered?

Most people have said they would be OK with unisex loos if they were self contained like accessible ones are. The issue is suddenly designating as unisex all the ordinary loos which consist of a row of stalls with gaps top, bottom and sides, and a row of basins where women may do their hair and make up as well as wash their hands.

BackInBlack78 · 15/02/2017 07:26

I wouldn't like it either...

But only because men's toilets bloody stink! Also they leave the toilet pans splattered in shit. And if they have no urinals, there's a lot of men that will piss on the seats 😡

YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/02/2017 07:54

Yes, I'm with the 'men's loos stink and are horrible brigade. I refuse to use unisex toilets unless the only alternative is weeing myself.

Trills · 15/02/2017 08:00

Disappointed that this was revived just with random comments - I was hoping the OP might have some update on how things were progressing at her work.

MrsDustyBusty · 15/02/2017 08:23

I think this insistence that women's feelings should be overlooked and aren't legitimate is disgraceful. And "I don't mind so you should just get over yourself and be like me" argument is ridiculous.

Women have reasons to want space and privacy. It's really disrespectful to tell them to get over themselves.

Lessthanaballpark · 15/02/2017 08:30

We had this at work but it was scrapped, presumably because the state of the loos deteriorated (for the women) and women complained.

They had to put up signs to tell the men NOT to use the sanitary towel disposers but they were overflowing, what with I really didn't want to know Shock

AskBasil · 15/02/2017 08:33

Good point about working late.

One of the blokes in my office is a bit creepy. I always feel a bit uncomfortable if we're working late at the same time and I would hate to have him come into the loos when I was having a pee, knowing that there is no one else around on that floor.

But obviously, I'm only a woman, so my feelings don't count. What was I thinking.

allthatnonsense · 15/02/2017 08:43

I loathe them.

Men's piss really does smell awful and they piss all over the seat and floor. So I find the concept actually disgusting.

They'll have to introduce seat covers and spray as all the women will have to clean the loos before using them.
Maybe this is a cunning way to get the women to clean up after the men? Cut down on cleaning expense. Angry

70ontheinside · 15/02/2017 08:54

Do you think anything is actually going to change, OP?
You will still have the old ladies'/men's toilets, which will now be called "the gender neutral toilets". Everybody will continue to use their loo and nothing changes, except for somebody in HR happily ticking the "we are an inclusive workplace" box.

TheBogQueen · 15/02/2017 10:49

Are men really that disgusting? I've never experienced a man pissing everywhere etc

I just can't picture sharing a hand drier with the head of ICT Confused

Datun · 15/02/2017 11:11

Maybe in unisex toilets, men tend to be a bit more careful. If you have ever mistakenly walked into the gents, they do smell of pee. I wonder if it's the urinals? Although I believe they also flush, don't they?

VestalVirgin · 15/02/2017 11:45

You will still have the old ladies'/men's toilets, which will now be called "the gender neutral toilets". Everybody will continue to use their loo and nothing changes, except for somebody in HR happily ticking the "we are an inclusive workplace" box.

Unless an MtT joins the workplace and will just walk into the women's loo because, after all, it is officially unisex.

Self segregation only works with men who don't take pleasure in making women uncomfortable. So perhaps the horrible unsanitary, stinky unisex toilet where men touch their willies and then use the door handle of the cubicle will be prevented by the normal men staying in the room previously designated for their use.
But any and all protection against creeps is gone.

TheBogQueen · 15/02/2017 17:22

I work in a very male dominated environment and I've got to say the men would probably find this just as uncomfortable as the women.

As fur the willy touching argument- well everyone washes their hands dont they afterwards and franklywomen also insert tampons etc

sashh · 15/02/2017 17:36

I know deep down I'll have to suck this up and it makes me feel frustrated that I don't have the power to change this.

Yes you do, as there are numerous toilets surely there should be at least one male and one female toilet as well as GN.

Is everyone happy with a moon cup being emptied and rinsed? Are men happy for a woman to know they are having a bit of trouble with their prostate?

Also why do they all have to be gender neutral?

yeahyeahyeahmama · 15/02/2017 17:50

I agree i would be uncomfortable about gender neutral toilets because men are dirty they piss alll over the floor, fart, belch & leave skids!
I know women do too but men are definitely worse & i know from experience! Ffs gender neutral toilets this is not modern or progressive it is to save carbon footprint to make the company look better!

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 15/02/2017 17:58

The majority of men and a significant number of women don't wash their hands, according to research here

Dinosaurus86 · 15/02/2017 17:59

We have just got a "gender neutral" toilet at work - cubicles, not self-contained, and not with floor to ceiling doors. It was previously the women's and they've just stuck a new sign on the door. This change was brought about after a new (male) member of staff started, who apparently identifies as "gender queer".

I don't particularly mind because we still have other ones designated for men and women. However, as far as I've seen, only men have been using this one - all the women now use just the women's one and so the sanitary bins there are all overflowing and there is even more of a problem with queues around break times.

I just don't understand why a toilet needs to be designated according to an ill-defined feeling in someone's head i.e. gender. There are very good reasons for separating according to biological sex and I definitely do not feel comfortable using the "gender neutral" one.

AssassinatedBeauty · 15/02/2017 18:03

I wonder if it's worth asking for more women's toilets, if there are regular queues and the sanitary bins are overflowing? I think I'd be reporting the overflowing sanitary bins to the maintenance/buildings people (whoever is in charge of sorting these out) every time I spotted it.

And of course they decided to designate the women's toilets as gender neutral! Why do they never decide to pick the men's toilet?!

Jenniferb21 · 15/02/2017 18:12

I would be very unhappy with this. I have a legal background and as someone has already put I'd view this as a potential breach of workplace regulations.

It is progressive to have gender neutral toilets if they were individual toilets I.e door to lock and inside 1 toilet with sink and sanitary disposal bin etc then fine if they're cleaned regularly. However if toilets are cubical style I would feel very uncomfortable. Mainly because I used to go to the gym and change at work or walk far and go to change before work etc. When I was pregnant and being sick I wouldn't appreciate that being next to men who may not be so understanding etc

I think it depends on the types of toilets (individual or communal) but I would raise it with HR in confidence. The more people who raise it the more They may re-consider.

VestalVirgin · 15/02/2017 18:12

The majority of men and a significant number of women don't wash their hands, according to research

Yeah. I have more problems with men doing this, as with women, there's a chance they will actually only have touched the clean toilet paper, but with men ... yeah.

@TheBogQueen: I don't use tampons, but I rather think there'd be blood on your hands after doing so, so if you didn't wash, people would see it.

But I really don't think we need to have a hygiene reason to not want to share toilet facilities with men.
Just not wanting it should be enough.

Dinosaurus86 · 15/02/2017 18:23

AssassinatedBeauty - I assume the reason they used the women's was because previously we had two women's but only one men's. Now we have even numbers of men's and women's, plus the GN. But the reason we had more women's installed was precisely because of the problems with queuing etc., which have now returned. I did report the sanitary bins - they seem to significantly underestimate how often they need emptying.