We're getting 'Gender Neutral' toilets at work

[LucilleTwo]

Have name changed for this as it could be identifying from my previous posts where I work and of course I don't want to get outed/sacked.

So today we had an email to inform us all that next year the toilets in our building will all be changed to 'gender neutral'. I've heard lots about gender neutral toilets on mn but always thought it would never happen in my workplace, where despite being a very large multinational in financial services, we can't even seem to get computers to work correctly half the time. I don't see our company as being particularly modern or progressive but I guess there is quite a good equality vibe going on (mostly).

After the email, nobody seemed to be bothered other than me, although once I asked my female colleague next to me if she was OK with it, she wasn't either but didn't want to make a fuss. My boss came over and I asked him why this was happening, he said he wasn't sure but I'd just have to get over it. He also admitted he wouldn't be comfortable coming out of the toilet when there was a woman there at the same time.

Another female colleague then piped up that she doesn't have a problem with it, there's nothing that would worry her about washing her hands at the same time as a man and anyway she lives with male housemates and doesn't mind that. I didn't really know how to answer that without being rude so I just remained silent and seethed about it in the car afterwards.

I'd appreciate everyone elses view on this as I've been made to feel like I've got a problem for no reason. I know deep down I'll have to suck this up and it makes me feel frustrated that I don't have the power to change this. Tried to talk to DH about it but he didn't really get the issue and my DM said 'oh well, you can't say anything these days' and that was that! I feel like I have no one to talk to about this at all.

That was the harassment I referred to.

Also here in California.

We only have three adult toilets at school. One is also the disabled toilet and where children can be changed so rarely used. The other two are in one room, two separate cubicles and one sink.
Mainly female staff; 4/5 males. We all use the same.

I've never thought much about it tbh. We were all so grateful to get new toilets with one additional toilet available to us that no one was too concerned about men and women sharing them.

OK sorry - I misunderstood - I suppose I think of "harassment" as something that you do in person so that would be something else.

There are many reasons that some women don't want toilets that aren't segregated by sex, all mentioned above. I do think it would be nice if a polite no was enough but it never is is it, not when it's women. I have grown up with the right to sex segregated space and I want that for my daughter too.

Apple thank you for those links, horrifying but particularly interesting as one is very close to home. I hadn't heard about those and they certainly reaffirm the uneasiness that I've been feeling.

I don't have specific concerns around safety although that's something that's always in the back of my mind. I do worry that this is the start of how things will be everywhere and I would never feel comfortable in a unisex toilet in a nightclub or place where there's likely to be a lot of drunk people. I've experienced harassment on a night out and it would be doubly worse if there wasn't a women-only space to escape to.

I still don't feel that the incidence of "men putting cameras in toilets and changing rooms" is common enough to affect my opinion of unisex toilets in my workplace.

My workplace is much more secure than a library or train station or cafe, and I don't get stressed about using those loos. Anyone who set up a camera there would have to be an employee or regular visitor if they wanted to retrieve the video, and it's unlikely they'd risk it.

I am not arguing that it is wrong for a woman to want a segregated loo, I am just saying that I don't particularly want one myself, and the reasons given for why you want it are not ones that make me want it.

Aye thank you, you've hit the nail on the head with those. I don't usually struggle to articulate myself but I really struggled to get my point across today so your reasons have really helped get things clear in my mind.

Ritchy yes me too. I have a condition that causes sometimes frequent toilet visits so I get what you mean there, it's bad enough without having to come face to face with Dave from accounts (not his real name) afterwards.

To answer other questions; it's an old building with very limited space so I don't think it'll be large cubicles with lots of privacy. We do currently have sanitary bins in the ladies (never been in the men's butility assume none in there currently), they are the ones that take up half the cubicle so you have to half sit on them when you use the toilet. It will be interesting if the space is still the same once men start using them and they have to sit on the bins too.

Who knows, they might pull it out of the bag and give us large and spacious private facilities with soundproofing...

Ugh, sitting on the bins is a massive pain.

My search history is now all me googling "sofie hagen twitter toilet" and combinations thereof because I'm sure she did an amusing tweet with a diagram of a public toilet with "how big the designers think my bum is" and "how big my bum actually is" that went completely over the bin.

Trills totally respect your reasons, I asked for opinions so I could see both sides of it. I get that some women don't mind and I'm interested to try and understand why.

My workplace has secure entry and vetting of employees too so I know the risk of assault is very low. Unfortunately there was a guy a few years ago who was really inappropriate and I'm so glad he was asked to leave because of that but it scares me to think how someone like him would handle having gender neutral toilets (for examples of his behaviour there was unwanted sexual comments to female staff, touching their hair, excessive staring). He is an exception to the rule though I know.

they are the ones that take up half the cubicle so you have to half sit on them when you use the toilet. It will be interesting if the space is still the same once men start using them and they have to sit on the bins too

This is my personal mission - to spread the word that if they would just offset the toilet in the cubicle, rather than put it in the centre then we could eradicate the bum/bin contact for ever. All they have to do, when they put up the frame for the cubicle walls, is move it over about 3 inches, and women's lives will be improved.

Meh. All my workplace toilets are unisex. If it's any consolation OP, no one has been photographed, or harrassed or complained in the 6 years I've been there or before.

Our loos are unisex, too. Each cubicle has a small basin, mirror and yes, a sanitary disposal bin.

No issues so far.

Women have more to deal with when visiting the loo due to periods. I wouldn't be comfortable buying tampons from the machine in front of a male colleague

Why not ? All men know women menstruate- why is having a period so shameful?

I wouldn't be comfortable removing a sanitary towel with a male colleague in the next cubicle

Why ? He has no idea what you are doing in there beyond what people usually do in lavatories. It's not as if changing a towel makes any noise.

I wouldn't be comfortable washing blood off my hands if it was a particularly heavy period, for example.

Would you really come out of a cubicle with blood stained hands? My periods looked like an abattoir but this isn't a problem I ever encountered. If you got blood on your hands wouldn't you wipe it away with loo paper before you left the cubicle?

It's not as if changing a towel makes any noise.

It makes a distinct rustling/peeling sound. It wouldn't bother me personally, but it is usually obvious that someone is changing a pad.

I can honestly say I have never sat in a ladies' loo and thought " ooh, rustling noises, the person next to me is unwrapping a sanitary towel "

If a colleague hears me or sees me doing something period-related and feels uncomfortable, I'm most likely to think
you think YOU are uncomfortable right now, try being in my shoes, this is much worse.

When I'm in the loo I don't pay much attention to what other people are doing and whether I can hear farty noises or whatever. I imagine others are similarly uninterested in paying attention to my noises.

It's not the embarrassment, it's pee splashed everywhere. I'm sorry but some men jetwash the whole room and that's not nice for women who sit to pee.

You won't know anyway of the other person next to you is a man or a woman.
It's unlikely that you will see them going in and if they come after you, again, you won't know.

I also don't think you will have a lot of issue with 'hearing a woman removing a pad' if the walls are from floor to ceiling.

What you might get is men being grumpy about having to sit on sanitary bin (and how awful it is to do so) so you might end up with wider cubicles or better system to put sanitary products in the bin. Now that would be a win IMO!

When I'm in the loo I don't pay much attention to what other people are doing and whether I can hear farty noises or whatever. I imagine others are similarly uninterested in paying attention to my noises

I assume the world divides into completely sane people who realise waste removal bodily functions might be noisy and smelly and don't care and those who realise this but get pointlessly embarrassed by it.

If you are one of the latter and are next door to one of the former why worry - they don't care. If it's one of the latter in the next cubicle then they are probably as pointlessly embarrassed as you are.

Oh I'd hate it. I can barely go for a poo in the ladies let alone unisex loos

It is usually quite obvious from the rustling when a woman is changing her sanitary protection in a neighbouring cubicle. In my old department I was pretty aware of when colleagues had their period. Tampax wrapping paper rustling also makes a different sound to unpeeling a towel. I'm honestly not that interested, but nor am I deaf. I was surprised to learn that some men (surely they have to be quite rare) have a menstruation fetish & would get off on it. I'd hate to be feeding someone else's kink.

Also, some people really struggle with overcoming their inhibitions. I used to know someone who was so inhibited about pooing outside of their home they could hold on for a week's holiday overseas.

We have a couple of unisex loos as units of three. They are very unpopular.
Changing them all is crazy. And what does happen when you need to get changed in the loo? That's pretty common.