We're getting 'Gender Neutral' toilets at work

[LucilleTwo]

Have name changed for this as it could be identifying from my previous posts where I work and of course I don't want to get outed/sacked.

So today we had an email to inform us all that next year the toilets in our building will all be changed to 'gender neutral'. I've heard lots about gender neutral toilets on mn but always thought it would never happen in my workplace, where despite being a very large multinational in financial services, we can't even seem to get computers to work correctly half the time. I don't see our company as being particularly modern or progressive but I guess there is quite a good equality vibe going on (mostly).

After the email, nobody seemed to be bothered other than me, although once I asked my female colleague next to me if she was OK with it, she wasn't either but didn't want to make a fuss. My boss came over and I asked him why this was happening, he said he wasn't sure but I'd just have to get over it. He also admitted he wouldn't be comfortable coming out of the toilet when there was a woman there at the same time.

Another female colleague then piped up that she doesn't have a problem with it, there's nothing that would worry her about washing her hands at the same time as a man and anyway she lives with male housemates and doesn't mind that. I didn't really know how to answer that without being rude so I just remained silent and seethed about it in the car afterwards.

I'd appreciate everyone elses view on this as I've been made to feel like I've got a problem for no reason. I know deep down I'll have to suck this up and it makes me feel frustrated that I don't have the power to change this. Tried to talk to DH about it but he didn't really get the issue and my DM said 'oh well, you can't say anything these days' and that was that! I feel like I have no one to talk to about this at all.

It's not girls and womens job to "get over" their fear, their fear is justified. We have the right to sex segregated toilets. We have the right to privacy.

I agree that we need to be more open about periods and that's becoming harder as women are barely allowed to talk about them.

Dame what fear are you talking about specifically? And how would unisex toilets be any less private than the more conventional women's? Presumably it will still be a bank of cubicles and some communal sinks..."

I agree that we need to be more open about periods and that's becoming harder as women are barely allowed to talk about them

The attitudes on here from grown up women are hardly conducive to being more open.

How are women "barely allowed to talk about them"?

When - on the whole sex segregated toilets do make women and girls feel safe, 98% of sexual assaults are perpetrated by men and it's nice not to share facilities with men when you're vulnerable. Obviously some girls can be nasty too but the evidence shows that sex segregated toilets keep women safe. There are women across the globe who cannot leave their homes as they have no access to sex segregated toilets. Please don't be so ready to hand over the hard one rights of women and girls.

I'm in the 'yuk I would hate this ' camp. It's bad enough trying to have a discreet poo in the ladies ! If I thought a male colleague could walk in I would be mortified!!!! And as for dealing with changing tampons & rustly pad packages......... it's a no from me. Would have to consider resigning.......... it may be an age thing? Younger women are more likely to be flat sharing with guys , have more open conversation about periods etc than us 'older' ladies?

Lass - we are losing the language we have to even name ourselves. Debate is stifled as women are redefined as menstruators, debates are derailed in the name of inclusivety. while this is happening women can make no progress.

I am very open about periods, my daughter and I support a charity that raises money to provide toilets for girls so that they can still go to school when they have their periods. They build toilets and buy pants. I am not uptight because I want to keep toilets sex segregated. I do not want to share facilities with the sex that is most likely to cause me harm is all.

I broke down at work once when I had some bad news over the phone about my mothers health.

I went to the toilets to sob my heart out (there are no private rooms in the entire building). A very nice female colleague was very sweet to me and comforted me and helped gather my possessions so I could go home.

I think most of my male colleagues would have found the whole episode very uncomfortable.

We need private spaces for more than just a place to pee.

There is a difference between 'unisex' and 'gender neutral' I think.

If they are like the 'gender neutral' loos (labelled as such) at my local uni there will be urinals in one corner, with only a low wall separating them and then cubicles.

What this means in practice is everyone uses the same entrance but the men can swan off to piss while woman wait in line.
If a man is waiting in line then he obviously wants to do more than piss.

I think if there is not a high volume of traffic then perhaps this co-existence would be OK? (Although I'm not keen on men pissing near me but hey ho).

However in the case of a lot of traffic (ie at a gig) it means there is a long queue to get in the door but men squeezing past to get to the urinals and twice the number of people in the queue for cubicles.

So actually not gender neutral at all in fact because women can't use the urinals whereas men can use urinals AND cubicles.

So actually they should be called 'men's (but women come and use the cubicle).(If you don't mind us squeezing past to piss) (and if you don't mind the bloke in the next cubicle doing a poo)(and if you don't mind seeing us piss)"

Yours might be different though.

(The 'Gender Neutral' sign is very nicely painted in large red letters though, just to you know, Make The Point).

Yes big, it is more than just a place to pee, much more. It's where a woman can go to adjust her hijab or wash a stain off her clothes in the sink. Touch up her make up, have a cry,.

I am actually more concerned about the next generation of boys. Dd is eleven and has had some horrendous sexualised comments aimed at her, porn videos openly watched. Some of them seem more misogynistic than their fathers.

I think fears about the next generation of boys are justified. They are certainly well "othered" on here all the time. Smelly, inconsiderate, dangerous and to be avoided if you feel emotional. No wonder you want to avoid them.

sigh

Women should have the right to bodily privacy in sex segregated loos if that can reasonably be provided.
It matters not one jot that there exist women on this thread or elsewhere that would choose not to exercise that right.
If those women or men attempt to pressurise, question, shame, mock or express disdain that you should wish to exercise your right places them firmly in the category of people whose opinions are irrelevant. Choosing not to exercise a right doesn't make it ok to try to take that right away from others who do wish to exercise their rights.

Express your concerns to your employer OP. you will NOT be the only woman concerned and many will not speak up precisely because they fear unsympathetic attitides of "what's your problem, you prude?"

Removing women's privacy is a legitimate concern.

"Boys are othered!"

Yes, the world is such a default female place, innit?

girl - I was talking about the real life experiences that my 11 year old daughter is facing, is that okay?

When - on the whole sex segregated toilets do make women and girls feel safe, 98% of sexual assaults are perpetrated by men and it's nice not to share facilities with men when you're vulnerable

I think my main problem with this is that toilets aren't actually a safe space. There's absolutely nothing stopping anyone from wandering into the ladies (or the gents - I've used the blokes loos a number of times due to huge queues).
There is no way to guarantee the washbasin area is man free as we have male cleaners.

If uk toliets were like USA toliets I would have more of an issue (huge gaps). But if we make the cubicles private with tiny or none existent gaps at the top and bottom then women will be completely alone when they are at their most vulnerable.

That's true when, but at the moment I can challenge a man in the ladies and I know that it is unlikely to happen. When the law changes it will be illegal fr me to challenge a man in the women's toilets. Do you see the difference? It will have a huge impact on women and girls.

bold fail!

but at the moment I can challenge a man in the ladies and I know that it is unlikely to happen

If he's a cleaner you can't really challenge him - I guess you could ask him to wait till you'd finished washing your hands.
If he's there to sexually assault you challenging isn't really going to work.

I'm all up for good solid door, cubicles for privacy but I'm just not that bothered about sex segregated sinks.

Plus because males are in the women's loos will mean some women have their rights curtailed. Some religious women will not take the risk or not be allowed to, another group of women taking the hit so that biological males can enjoy more freedoms, and women's rights shrink and shrink.

Soon we will not have the right to any privacy.

Ds1 has told me some absolutely disgusting stories of how, many of the boys in his year, speak to and treat the girls in his year. I'm certainly not anti boys/ men. But yes I have concerns about what boys are exposed to whilst growing up and how they will be as adults. There is a ftm boy in his year group too. Wouldn't be surprised if sexual harassment was a contributing factor, to the want to change.(they still change with the girls for PE)

His school has one block of unisex toilets, floor to ceiling walls and door, sinks in the middle and the room is open to the corridor. Ds won't use them.

That's also true when, there are some male cleaners and there is a sign up to say that is the case. That is still very different to opening up toilets to all males isn't it. Very different indeed, surely you can see that? One male cleaner versus all males.

I'm with you OP fully. I also work in a very large organisation and thank god at least for now gents and ladies are fully segregated. I consider the ladies to be a safe haven of calm. I would absolutely hate hate hate to share with men. I know it's a bit irrational as at home I don't have segregated loos. But it's just how I feel. I think i would have to start a petition if they planned anything like that in my place of work.

Mystic we want better for our boys don't we, he shouldn't have to be exposed to that sort of crap.