We're getting 'Gender Neutral' toilets at work

[LucilleTwo]

Have name changed for this as it could be identifying from my previous posts where I work and of course I don't want to get outed/sacked.

So today we had an email to inform us all that next year the toilets in our building will all be changed to 'gender neutral'. I've heard lots about gender neutral toilets on mn but always thought it would never happen in my workplace, where despite being a very large multinational in financial services, we can't even seem to get computers to work correctly half the time. I don't see our company as being particularly modern or progressive but I guess there is quite a good equality vibe going on (mostly).

After the email, nobody seemed to be bothered other than me, although once I asked my female colleague next to me if she was OK with it, she wasn't either but didn't want to make a fuss. My boss came over and I asked him why this was happening, he said he wasn't sure but I'd just have to get over it. He also admitted he wouldn't be comfortable coming out of the toilet when there was a woman there at the same time.

Another female colleague then piped up that she doesn't have a problem with it, there's nothing that would worry her about washing her hands at the same time as a man and anyway she lives with male housemates and doesn't mind that. I didn't really know how to answer that without being rude so I just remained silent and seethed about it in the car afterwards.

I'd appreciate everyone elses view on this as I've been made to feel like I've got a problem for no reason. I know deep down I'll have to suck this up and it makes me feel frustrated that I don't have the power to change this. Tried to talk to DH about it but he didn't really get the issue and my DM said 'oh well, you can't say anything these days' and that was that! I feel like I have no one to talk to about this at all.

Baby sharing a family the bathroom isn't the same as sharing a bathroom with any male is it. Just like sharing a bathroom with a male cleaner isn't the same as sharing a bathroom with any male. We need to protect our rights as others are so eager to hand them over.

that made zero sense! I meant sharing a bathroom with your family!

One male cleaner versus all males

It's the sinks not the cubicle.

As to the religious women - they already run the "risk" of a male cleaner being there. There isn't always a sign and if they are starting to clean the standard process seems to be to walk in the communal area (sinks) and annonce their presence.
If you have a problem you ask them to leave so you can wash your hands in privacy.

I think it depends a lot on the facilities in question - we have separate individual shower cubicles next to each toilet block, which are shower cubicle and separated changing area with hairdryer and mirror, so if anyone wanted to change their clothes, they'd go in there, not in the loos. More space for it, too.

I have been in unisex loos which were basically individual toilet rooms in a row - each had a loo, sanitary bin, basin, mirror and waste paper basket. Full length proper doors. That sort of thing is fine, as it's private for whoever is in there. If it's cubicles with gaps at the top and bottom of the doors or even between the adjacent cubicles, then I'm less keen - but then I'm less keen on those even in single sex rooms. At least we're not like the USA, where they seem to favour massive gaps above and below the doors, and I'd really have a problem with that sort of loo being unisex - I wasn't comfortable with them for just women.

Lots of small workplaces will just have a single toilet in any case, I would have thought, so people have to share anyway. But then it will be a proper room, so full privacy while you're in there.

So I think it depends massively on the physical configuration of the unisex loos.

A cubical which is basically an individual room with a sink in it is not really gender neutral toilets. Its just individual toilets. That's fine in my opinion.
However I think women should have the right to sex segregated toilets if they want. Okay some women are fine with it but others aren't. Maybe most work places its completely fine to have gender neutral toilets again, but others maybe not. And what about other places, what about clubs/bars? Schools? I would hate to share toilets with men who had been drinking, clubbing etc. Is bad enough with all the men touching you when you have somewhere you can escape to (the toilets).
When I was at school a friend had a really heavy period, she got it all over her, the floor of the toilets and her hands etc, she was young so wasn't used to dealing with it either. She had to clean up very obviously as she needed to use the sink. Imagine if boys had been able to come in and see her? It was horrendous enough for her as it was, but at least she could use the toilets to clean up, and have a cry with only people who might understand around. I remember sitting in the loos with her crying and older girls coming in and helping and being so nice but I cant imagine teenage boys being so understanding.

charlie - that was my daughter, aged 10, washing her trousers in the sink. Still very new to her periods and having to manage them.

If he's there to sexually assault you challenging isn't really going to work.
What if he's there to plant a camera, record you pissing or generally just to get a hard on by being in the ladies?
Why do we have to pretend there aren't men out there who live this stuff? There are. Not loads but one or two can have a big effect (see Jimmy Saville).
It is so hard to prove sexual crimes generally, that I am very uncomfortable with the approach that it'll be OK to let males in women's spaces because if they are pervs the law will deal with it. It also has the air of shutting the door after the horse has bolted.

What if he's there to plant a camera, record you pissing or generally just to get a hard on by being in the ladies

Than there is nothing to stop in going on the ladies anyway. There's no bouncer on the door.

Than = then

There isn't a bouncer but it is seemed as unacceptable behaviour, until the law changes when it won't be.

Than there is nothing to stop in going on the ladies anyway. There's no bouncer on the door.
Yes there is. Social conditioning is very powerful and minimises all kinds of undesirable behaviour (littering, drink driving etc) without the need for bouncers.
Introducing gender neutral facilities changes the social acceptability of men and women mixing and thereby increases opportunities for sex offenders.
In child safeguarding we expect people to be screened, not to be alone with children and tell children to trust their instincts in a bid to reduce sex offending against children. But women are being told it's bigoted to trust their instincts, that men aren't a risk and it's fine to be alone with them in vulnerable situations

Introducing gender neutral facilities changes the social acceptability of men and women mixing and thereby increases opportunities for sex offenders.

This statement horrifies me. So the cure for sex offenders is keeping men and women apart?

all those talking about kids - the OP is at work in an adult environment. She is not a child at school where girls are learning to manage periods and do need extra privacy.

Devi - it's almost as if we are being gaslighted isn't it.

I think as 98% of sex offenders are male it's reasonable to request separate facilities when women and girls are vulnerable.

This statement horrifies me. So the cure for sex offenders is keeping men and women apart?
That isn't what I said! I do however think sex offenders will exploit any possibility to do what they want and I don't think we should be making it easier for them to do that.
TBH I'm more worried that once we have unisex loos the same arguments will be applied to changing rooms, sports showers, hospital wards etc etc etc

Although reading back maybe I wasn't very clear!
It should've said "Introducing gender neutral facilities changes the social acceptability of men and women mixing in situations that were previously women only and so maybe titillating to certain types of men"

What if he's there to plant a camera, record you pissing or generally just to get a hard on by being in the ladies?

In a work place? Which is what this thread started about. Do you really go about your every day lives thinking that secret cameras might be installed in the office loos?

Do you really go about your every day lives thinking that secret cameras might be installed in the office loos?

I've wondered about it before, but that's with single sex toilets and not trusting one of the maintenance men (because they are all men.) That particular risk is no less or more in unisex toilets (not to mention all in my head.)

TBH I'm more worried that once we have unisex loos the same arguments will be applied to changing rooms, sports showers, hospital wards etc etc etc

There's a swimming pool near me with a mixed changing room. It's great, communal area where people are dressed / in a swimsuit. Then there's private cubicles for people to get changed. It's great no ones complained.

Our work has always had unisex toilets. In every single building. As did my last job.

It's not so much a problem for me because it's always been. But if they wanted to change it I may feel a little uncomfortable, but I'd get used to it.

Our local swimming pool has had unisex communal changing and showers for years

My home city has a newish unisex "changing village" which is vast & poorly staffed. The cubicles do not have floor to ceiling partitions. There is a constant stream of convictions for voyeurism and indecency offences at the pool reported in the local paper, camera phone filming under or over the partitions featuring regularly. While the stakes are higher in a workplace setting, you'll forgive my scepticism about it all being peachy and no-one will exploit it blah blah blah.

Insert "on the pool premises" into my first sentence.