We're getting 'Gender Neutral' toilets at work

[LucilleTwo]

Have name changed for this as it could be identifying from my previous posts where I work and of course I don't want to get outed/sacked.

So today we had an email to inform us all that next year the toilets in our building will all be changed to 'gender neutral'. I've heard lots about gender neutral toilets on mn but always thought it would never happen in my workplace, where despite being a very large multinational in financial services, we can't even seem to get computers to work correctly half the time. I don't see our company as being particularly modern or progressive but I guess there is quite a good equality vibe going on (mostly).

After the email, nobody seemed to be bothered other than me, although once I asked my female colleague next to me if she was OK with it, she wasn't either but didn't want to make a fuss. My boss came over and I asked him why this was happening, he said he wasn't sure but I'd just have to get over it. He also admitted he wouldn't be comfortable coming out of the toilet when there was a woman there at the same time.

Another female colleague then piped up that she doesn't have a problem with it, there's nothing that would worry her about washing her hands at the same time as a man and anyway she lives with male housemates and doesn't mind that. I didn't really know how to answer that without being rude so I just remained silent and seethed about it in the car afterwards.

I'd appreciate everyone elses view on this as I've been made to feel like I've got a problem for no reason. I know deep down I'll have to suck this up and it makes me feel frustrated that I don't have the power to change this. Tried to talk to DH about it but he didn't really get the issue and my DM said 'oh well, you can't say anything these days' and that was that! I feel like I have no one to talk to about this at all.

Our local swimming pool has had unisex communal changing and showers for years

Ours too. There are individual shower cubicles if you want to strip off rather than use the showers on the poolside. There is a range of changing cubicle sizes - individual, double and family. I'm not aware of issues with anyone with phones trying to record under cubicles or anything, but that might just reflect my lack of awareness.

Where I live ( Australia) separate toilets and changing rooms for men and women are the norm. I would not use gender neutral facilities under any circumstances and I would voice my opposition very openly. I'd get a lot of support from all the other women; my view on this would be typical.

I used to work at a company that had just one toilet. I hated it. I have to confess the toilet seat was nearly always piddled on. Myself and 4 men so I know it was a man. Also they hardly ever flushed. And three out of four of them was always putting themselves away when they came out . Not a pleasant experience, I didn't stay long as I kept getting cystitis, I think because I only went once a day at lunchtime in the nearby coffee shop.

I'm in my early twenties and am generally super relaxed about sharing spaces with men. When I travel, I stay in hostels and sleep in mixed-gender dorms. I'm not afraid anyone is going to assault me in my sleep. I don't mind sharing showers and toilets with men in hostels, where the walls are floor-to-ceiling and there's a relatively small number of people. I am a bit jealous of the way men can go around the mixed-gender dorms in their underwear and women have to sneak off to the bathrooms to get changed but we have a long way to go before we desexualise women's bodies and right now we have to live in the reality of the society we have, so.

However, in a place with a lot of people - a festival, a club, university or a college/ busy work environment - I HATE unisex toilets. So much. In clubs and festivals it means pee on the seats, and worse... I used the men's toilets recently in a restaurant because there was someone unwell in the only women's one and it was the same, stank, had to clean the seat thoroughly before I sat down on it, floor was covered in piss. Men pee standing up and it just makes a lot more mess, and they don't seem to bother cleaning it up when it's a public loo.

Also, I like being able to touch up my makeup in the mirrors without men staring at me (have experienced this in unisex toilets.) I like being able to announce to the room at large 'has anyone got a tampon?' (it's all very well and good to say men shouldnt bat an eyelid at this normal bodily function, and they SHOULDN'T, but should and would are different things and you're kidding yourself if you think there aren't plenty of men in the world who would chime in with a sexist comment at that point. I wish every man was as cool as my boyfriend, but that's not the case, and women deserve spaces where they can deal with the aspects of femaleness that some men consider disgusting without having to hope that all the men sharing that space happen to be lovely feminists. If this was taking place in a hypothetical reality where all men were lovely feminists, it would be a different debate, but it's not.)

Also, in terms of teenagers, I would be fucking raging to hear bathrooms in schools were being made unisex. Horrific for girls.

Anyway, just wanted to lend my voice to support you, OP. I don't think it's unreasonable to prefer female-only spaces for personal physical stuff. I don't think it's anti-man to point out that some men are sexist.

For me, whether or not there floor-to-ceiling walls would make a big difference. But yeah I strongly prefer women's toilets in general having used my fair share of unisex ones.

I wonder if men and women will gradually gravitate to different floors to use the toilets, making them in effect gender segregated again?

It wouldnt bother me as long as the toilets were floor to ceiling and had sanitary bins and wash basins.

My DC secondary have unisex toilets and it works well. It's also much easier for parents/families and children.

Purely in the grounds that men's toilets always stink and men rarely wash their hands I would be protesting about this.

I wonder if men and women will gradually gravitate to different floors to use the toilets, making them in effect gender segregated again?

Possible, but it will take a long time until women will again feel comfortable enforcing this.
And the men who would feel uncomfortable watching a woman change clothes, put on makeup, or hear her pee, are not the reason we need sex segregated spaces in the first places.

I am totally okay with gender neutral toilets. I WANT toilets to be gender neutral.

I want them to be segregated according to sex, ignoring gender identity.

But clearly, that is not what is meant here.

Idiocy. Will probably not cost much money as no one will bother putting up sanitary bins in the newly unisex toilets that used to be men's, but there will be an effort in changing the signs, and the only people who will profit from it are men who want to spy on women ... and, PERHAPS, but not likely, some people will be easier able to access a toilet closer to their workplace. (But women will still have to walk all the way to one of the previously women's toilets for a bin. I have no trust in the genderactivists consideration for actual women's comfort. None at all.)

Our local swimming pool has had unisex communal changing and showers for years

... if I am going to be naked in front of men anyway, why not just strip in public and bathe in the nude?

With individual changing cubicles and showers, okay, those can be unisex, but I was under the impression that space was getting more expensive, not less. And you need extra walls, etc, for individual showers and changing cubicles if they are to provide any actual privacy.

If people are just getting less comfortable with getting naked in front of strangers of the same sex, fair enough.

But what you write makes it appear as though women are actually expected to use the communal unisex changing rooms, not cubicles. Oo

My office have unisex toilets - there is one door and then a bunch of doors for each cubicle. Each cubicle has a proper door (solid fllor to ceiling), wash basin, bins, hand drier, mirror, some have a shower in the corner).
They are built unisex so are fine - it's not just been a case of chamging labels. There's been thought and money spent on it.
They seem clean too - haven't noticed any piddles and I look carefully. There are also sanitisers for the seat - and notices to use them please!

I hated it. I hated that I couldn't stash sanitary towels in the bathroom and then take them in to a cubicle without a male colleague possibly seeing. I hated not being able to rearrange my hair a bit without the possibility of a male colleague having the opportunity to brand me vain.

SweetGrapes, okay, that'd be tolerable, but is there any advantage over regular toilets?

I would prefer individual shower cubicles to communal showers, but with toilets, I really do not mind washing my hands in the presence of other women, and doesn't it cost a lot more to install washbasins and hand driers in each individual cubicle?

No advantage that I can see other than maybe they don't need to plan for changes in numbers (m:f ratio or anything like that).
I miss the general chit chat that happens at the wash basins in a female toilet. At my clients (there are the traditional male/female toilets) we kind of treat it like another water cooler iykwim.

I have zero issue with unisex toilets, especially in the workplace where you know everyone. I don't get your problem, honestly.

Although, I do quite like the camaraderie you get in the ladies loo, I would find unisex loos acceptable if they were self-contained, floor to ceiling walls and door and opening to a public. corridor.

Just renaming an existing traditional ladies set up as unisex, no thanks.

Several places that have done that, have now gone back to segregated loos with an additional unisex facility. Toronto University (who were very much at forefront of the unisex debate), for example.

Cubicles should go from ceiling to floor

Friend of mine was in a cubicle at the swimming pool and some man stuck his head under while she was naked

datun

We have those loos at a local shopping centre...they are awesome

At at the skygardens in london which is a tourist attraction

Though its amazing how many men try and walk to the head of the queue

rufus

I was originally against single unisex loos because I am very happy with ladies' toilets. I'm not a 'must go to the loo with my friend' type, but there have been occasions when this has been useful. The presence of a man, in my opinion, change the dynamic. Instantly.

However, it is the transactivists own stance that they want toilets to be segregated and they want to use the ladies, not unisex, that made me change my mind.

I don't care whether it is for validation or fetish purposes. The very fact that they aren't happy with unisex gives a complete lie to the 'just a place to pee' argument.

So yes, let's go with unisex. They won't like that at all and the motivation will become clear.

Because I sure as shit am not interested in supporting a fetish, neither am I interested in a whole bunch of legislation that affects half the population just to validate a tiny, tiny minority of men.

I think if they are going to introduce unisex loos, then they need to introduce a rule that men ahve to sit down to pee.

Oh god the smell of a man's shit. I know, I know, mine doesn't smell of roses. But with the exception of a woman who had some kind of bowel problem, the shit of men has always smelled so much more vile.

I suppose women this is being inflicted on, could try leaving used tampons and sanitary pads in the loo and not flush.

The men will complain. And their complaints will be taken seriously. You'll soon get single sex loos back if men decide they don't want to share loo space with women.

Is there a union in your workplace?

Have they drunk the kool aid or might they be up for defending a few female worker's rights?

Or is that a very silly question, unions have never been particularly up for that if they conflicted with male workers rights, have they.

I wouldn't really mind strangers but meeting close male colleagues in the toilet would take a bit of getting used to.

I think people would self segregate anyway to avoid embarrassment.

Tonight over dinner in a restaurant , my girls wanted to go to the bathroom. They normally go together but this time I went with them. A single toilet each for men and women, and shared washing facilities. While one DD and I were waiting, the door to the men's was thrown open and a very drunk man lurched out staring at us. No hand washing but some comments said that we didn't catch..

I think this move to unisex toilets is a disaster for children and young women, in particular. But I would also hate it at work and would voice my objections loudly.

At my previous work place I'd have had no concerns whatsoever for my safety, my male colleagues were all lovely and well mannered. If we'd gone unisex use of the multi cubicle toilets in that building I would still have stopped using the toilets. Or gone to Tesco in my lunch hour. Worked from home more.

On this thread, women who have been raised all their lives in a country of sex segregated toilets, changing facilities and so on, are being told any feelings of discomfort, embarrassment and anxiety are something they should be ashamed of having and must get over. Many won't. Many will just no longer feel able to use the toilets, but will be shamed into keeping quiet about it and hiding their problem.

Yay for inclusivity.

I think people would self segregate anyway to avoid embarrassment.

Well, yes, the women and the lovely and well mannered men will.

The entitled male assholes will happily walk into the inofficial women's loo and insist that it is officially unisex.
And their assholery won't be witnessed or opposed by the lovely men, because those will be elsewhere.

So IF indeed, people do self-segregate, the results will be as disastrous as those of allowing trans into the women's facilities. Well, perhaps not as bad, if the cubicles are ceiling to floor. But still bad.

Datun has a point, but I'd rather not have to do the unisex experiment - it is a very expensive way to prove that the transwacktivists don't "just want to pee".