Shannon Mathews

[user1477282676]

This was a shocking case. The child was without a doubt a victim in terrible circumstances. Her own Mother stashing her away under the bed of her partner...drugging her, lying to the public and to her friends about such an awful thing.

But.

Does anyone here think that the press and the public demonised her in a far worse fashion than criminals who do worse have been?

She was pilloried, called terrible names...really made into a sort of figurehead for everything "unwomanly" when there are plenty of men who commit arguably worse crimes and who get away without the public disgrace.

Yes she did a truly awful thing but the fact that she was

A: A woman
B: Working Class
C: Ignorant
D: Unattractive

All added up to ensure that she was the perfect example of a demon woman. Can anyone expand or tell me more about this sort of thing? Do you agree with me? Are there other cases which are similar?

There has been plenty of research that shows female criminals are more notorious than males who commit the same crimes.

You can see the evidence in this thread- Myra hindley is a household name. Is robert black's?

People remember that Peter connellys mum was tracy but do they remember the names of the 2 men who killed him?

Beeb very good point re Tracy.

Deepan - we'll never know if he would have or not because they did meet.

What we also know Myra willingly engaged in the abuse and murder of children when she had ample opportunity to have prevented it.

And she then kept quiet about two of the murders for over 20 years while simultaneously expressing 'remorse' and gathering supporters to campaign for her release. Years of knowing she could help those families alleviate just a little bit of the torture they endured by telling them what happened to their children when they were begging her to. And she ignored it and denied all till Brady dropped her in it.

Re Brady and Hindley it's depressing to see excuses being made for her, particularly if it is the case neither had killed before they met the other.

Re Karen Matthews I agree with Pepperpot99

Just been reading up on Myra hindly apparently she was violent and abusive herself and I will not believe she is not as bad as Ian brady if she had any ounce of humanity about her she would have said where the bodies were buried

It angers me that some people here seem to be apologists for female killers and abusers. Most murderers of children are male, but there are plenty of well documented cases where women are the perpetrators or it's joint enterprise.

I don't believe for a second that Myra Hindley was some poor victim of a dominating , persuasive male. She knew exactly what she was doing and deliberately led those children to their deaths.

Don't blame men for everything. Karen Mathews knew exactly what she was doing, as did Myra Hindley, as did Tracy Connoly, as did Rose West. Yes there are plenty of female victims of dominating, abusive men but the reverse is also true.

People remember that Peter connellys mum was tracy but do they remember the names of the 2 men who killed him?

Possibly because their names were less prominently exposed at the time of the trial because of the other trial for child sex offenced involving them where they were not named to protect the anonymity of the victim ? The victim being another of Connelly's children.

Connelly herself is apparently now in a relationship with Toni Hewitson.

I would say Robert Black is as well known as Hindley.

It's not just the fact that Myra Hindley murdered that made her a 'household name' it's the couple aspect that will always attract more publicity.

It sells papers, the idea that two people can meet and be as evil as the other, spurring each other on. Plus the fact they're in a sexual relationship which adds the 'perverted lovers' element.

Everyone knows who Fred and Rose West are.

I thought similar about Maxine Carr. She did wrong and she spent time in prison for that, but why so much hate towards her?

She didn't kill the little girls, she wasn't anywhere near Soham at the time. She gave an alibi to someone she believed was innocent - that is why she was not convicted of assisting an offender.

Had she not given the +false alibi would the girls have been found sooner?

I think there is an interesting angle feminism-wise in comparing to the McCanns. As, regardless of opinions that would be deleted, it is always Kate that is the one demonised in whatever version people believe.

I hope it's clear that I'm not specifically sharing a deletable opinion here, just stating that on both sides, whether people believe she was taken or not, they blame the mother.

I do think Maxine Carr was unfairly treated by the press. Yes she lied but I don't think she believed for a second that he could have murdered the girls.

I don't agree Kate McCann is the one who is demonised. Quite the opposite- when they are criticised the reference is usually to "the McCanns" in a way which reduces and dehumanises both of them. They morph in to a conjoined object of hate.

Articles which are favourable focus on Kate's suffering as a mother.

In either case their circumstances and loss don't bear the slightest comparison to what Karen Matthews did.

What Karen Mathews did to her child was horrific do you honestly think the mother is some sort of victim a poor uneducated woman so she didn't know any better is that what you are saying op?

I agree a case could be made for Maxine Carr.

I agree and emphathise with much of what I see posted on this forum. But posters seeking to paint Hindley and Matthews as somehow victims strikes me as beyond the pale.

Regarding the McCanns, whilst there's a significant swell of alternative thinking, the main reaction seems to be one of sympathy - a reaction that would've been inconceivable had they been a working class couple out clubbing. In that case, the main (only?) driver of people's reactions seems not to be sex but social class.

I agree with Lass and others re Maxine Carr btw.

She wasn't working class. She was Benefits class. Never worked.

Ooh am I "benefits class" too? Or is that expression only for those who have "never worked"?

I'd love to know the answer to that too, Alfie

I think by 'benefits class' the poster meant the kind of people who have never worked and never intend to, and have kids and more kids to keep the benefits coming. People like this DO exist, and I suppose Karen Matthews was one of them.
The problem with it as a term is that these days all kinds of people are 'on benefits' of one kind or another just to survive.
I agree it is an insult to working people to describe this woman as 'working class'.

Brat Oh we all know exactly what they meant by Benefits Class. The demonising of the poor is still utterly despicable and naming them "Benefits Class" is disgusting and unacceptable.

Many of these families are products of Thatchers Britain. They come from communities with industries which were decimated during the 70s and 80.

These were good communities with hard working people.

The fallout from extreme poverty was divorce and then the myriad of social problems which spring from a community with no centre, no work, no hope.

Unfortunately it is because of lazy, entitled parasites like Karen Matthews that so many people get tarred with the 'benefits class' brush. There is a small group of feckless wasters who think they are entitled and KM was well documented as telling people she had more dc in order to claim the child benefit. She was not 'working class'- that's an insult to grafters everywhere.

Just so we are clear, Myra Hindley was demonised because she was a child abusing murderer. She is still very much a figure in living memory so making some half arsed point about her is neither big nor clever.

I would say Robert Black is as well known as Hindley.

I've never heard of Robert Black!

I have never heard of Robert Black either.