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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Shannon Mathews

391 replies

user1477282676 · 12/12/2016 07:36

This was a shocking case. The child was without a doubt a victim in terrible circumstances. Her own Mother stashing her away under the bed of her partner...drugging her, lying to the public and to her friends about such an awful thing.

But.

Does anyone here think that the press and the public demonised her in a far worse fashion than criminals who do worse have been?

She was pilloried, called terrible names...really made into a sort of figurehead for everything "unwomanly" when there are plenty of men who commit arguably worse crimes and who get away without the public disgrace.

Yes she did a truly awful thing but the fact that she was

A: A woman
B: Working Class
C: Ignorant
D: Unattractive

All added up to ensure that she was the perfect example of a demon woman. Can anyone expand or tell me more about this sort of thing? Do you agree with me? Are there other cases which are similar?

OP posts:
deydododatdodontdeydo · 12/12/2016 13:29

The tabloids always seemed to have a particular fascination with Hindley, and her name was the one always brought up in relation to other child murders or stories about female criminals. A lot of it had to do with the notorious picture of her, but I do think it was because there was a particular fascination and horror around the fact that she was a woman who had participated in such awful crimes, where that wouldn't necessarily have been the case had Brady had a male accomplice.

I just did some reading of this. While police had dealt with male and female killers before, this was the first time a couple had been jointly complicit. To the extent that when Brady was arrested, Hindley was ignored. They just didn't consider she could be involved. Some of the fascination and horror must have been due to the couple aspect too - like Bonny and Clyde.
I agree there is often more fascination and horror regarding female killers, but not sure it's true in this case.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 12/12/2016 13:33

Was he branded the worst stepfather in Britain?

I think it would be more pertinent to consider the pernicious way the waste of space who was snagging Connelly at the time is even described as a "step father"

So far as your other point Elendon 2 wrongs don't make a right (although I don't consider press and public reaction to Connelly is wong) Isn't your point about bit "what aboutery"? Usually unacceptable on FWR.

There was a red top article pointing out that, bizarrely, Matthews, Connelly and Maxine Carr were all living in the same town. The strapline was the "3 most evil women / most hated women in UK".

Had the OP chosen to focus on the inexcusable linking of Maxine Carr to those 2 I doubt anyone would have disagreed.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 12/12/2016 13:34

Shagging Connelly.. my point being calling short term sexual partners "step parents" is wrong.

Elendon · 12/12/2016 13:35

Hindley and Brady were not jointly complicit. He was the one who viciously murdered and she was the one who turned a blind eye. Murdering someone is entirely different to turning a blind eye.

Abusing someone is entirely different to turning a blind eye. If someone is abusing someone else and the family turn a blind eye to it, are the family equally complicit as the abuser?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 12/12/2016 13:38

In the case of resident parents , yes, morally and legally complicit.

Any more excuses?

Elendon · 12/12/2016 13:38

Lass your response is most disappointing. Could do better I think. However, it does fit into your selective and personal viewpoint. Which is interesting, given your legal background.

BratFarrarsPony · 12/12/2016 13:39

" He was the one who viciously murdered and she was the one who turned a blind eye."

she 'procured' them by asking them for their help or offering them a lift home.
she also participated in torture and murder with at least one victim (the one that they taped).

headinhands · 12/12/2016 13:40

Feel the same about the media treatment of Heather Mills/Amanda Knox or any other woman who reuses to be a female martyr in the face of criticism.

Elendon · 12/12/2016 13:41

What about grandparents, aunts and uncles? Surely they know and yet turned a blind eye.

Excuses for what? This enrages me about FWR, because certain posters have certain agendas and never will they be swayed by discussion or debate.

Elendon · 12/12/2016 13:43

Brat Yes, what she did was appalling, she deserved to be imprisoned, but it didn't make her equal to him as the vicious and despicable murderer. He was the monster, not her.

Original poster
user1477282676 · 12/12/2016 13:44

Lass that's so odd....all three in one town? Is it because there was a supported hostel there or something though?

OP posts:
Elendon · 12/12/2016 13:44

If Brady was gay then his male partner would not have been demonised as much as Hindley.

sushisack · 12/12/2016 14:12

If Brady was gay then his male partner would not have been demonised as much as Hindley.

Rubbish. What exactly was unfair about her "demonisation"?

Thisjustinno · 12/12/2016 14:24

Hindley didn't 'turn a blind eye', she was the only way they accessed victims and disposed of their bodies. Brady couldn't drive, it was her that drove the children to their death. With the first victim Pauline Reade, she drove around with Brady looking for a victim and she advised him to pick an older girl (16) as it would cause less of a fuss than a younger children going missing. Hindley picked out Pauline as knew her and knew she'd trust Myra. She then drove her up to the Moors knowing Brady was following on his motorbike and Pauline was going to die. At any point she could have turned around and stopped it. She didn't.

She wasn't turning a blind eye when she was threatening to hit 10 year old Lesley Ann Downey who was crying for her Mam and begging Myra not to take her clothes off. Brady says it was her that killed Lesley Ann by the way but we'll never know. We do know what they both recorded that Boxing day though. And the sexual photographs they took of that little girl bound and gagged before she was murdered.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 12/12/2016 14:31

Elendon What are you querying- resident parents have a legal responsibility to not harm their children. That legal responsibility does not necessarily apply to other family members but obviously other family members if committing or abetting crimes are culpable.

Excuses for what? This enrages me about FWR, because certain posters have certain agendas and never will they be swayed by discussion or debate

Yes; very true - like the Connelly ,Matthews and Hindley apologists on here.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 12/12/2016 14:39

However, it does fit into your selective and personal viewpoint

Like your spirited and embarrassing defence of Hindley ? Your suggestion that if Brady were gay then his male partner would not have been demonised as much as Hindley is laughable.



Elendon · 12/12/2016 14:43

Thisjust. It's almost as if you expect such behaviour from men, but when a woman does it, it goes against all humanity.

Piss off Lass. Seriously? Apologist? No one here is an apologist. Many are for male behaviour though.

MrsJayy · 12/12/2016 14:43

Myra Hindly hardly turned a blind eye Myra Hindley quite happliy tried to wriggle herself out of any responsibility that is not turning a blind eyd

birdybirdywoofwoof · 12/12/2016 14:48

'Turning a blind eye' is a poor (and grossly inaccurate) phrase for Myra hindleys actions.

whattheseithakasmean · 12/12/2016 14:50

Hinckley knew at least one of the vistims and spoke te her mother after The killing, sympathising with her about her missing child. How can anyone defend Hindley on the basis of her sex? I find that chilling.

Elendon · 12/12/2016 14:53

It's not laughable.

Take, for example, John Christie

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Christie_(murderer)

He not only murdered several women (the total number is unknown), but he also sent an innocent man to hang, a man who was illiterate and possibly had special educational needs. I do wonder, if his wife, Ethel, had not been murdered, would she have been the most vilest woman in Britain for turning the other eye. We know she was abused. Is that an excuse? But perhaps I'm also an apologist for Ethel Christie.

Elendon · 12/12/2016 14:55

I'm not sympathising with the actions of Hindley, all I'm saying is she was not as complicit as Brady. What she did was abhorrent, what he did was much worse. Though, she obviously is just as bad as him eh?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 12/12/2016 14:56

all three in one town? Is it because there was a supported hostel there or something though?

Just described as "a seaside town". I'm assuming one of those seaside towns which has seen better days but is a bit down at heel now so cheap accommodation available ; in theory off the beaten track; probably per head of population a higher ratio of probation officers and social workers than a metropolitan area whilst being easier to keep tabs on than a rural area.

birdybirdywoofwoof · 12/12/2016 14:56

Well I agree she wasn't as bad- but turning a blind eye has a very different meaning-
And you know it!

Elendon · 12/12/2016 14:57

Ethel Christie had evidence of physical abuse. So that let's her off. Her husband abused her physically. What about those women who are emotionally abused?

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