Danielle Muscato

[feminazi]

So, Muscato has been all over the media the past week after having a Twitter rant at Trump. Muscato was praised for being a vocal female activist...

All MSM is reporting this story in the same way, ignoring the elephant in the room...

[Xenophile]

Ah, whataboutery.

Predictable.

[Datun]

Being unaware of the effect of something, doesn't mean the effect isn't significant. The unawareness, is at the beginning of the timeline of the effect.

By the time more people understand what is happening, it will be too late.

The effect is the erosion of women's rights, the redefinition of the word woman, the damaging affect of transing children and the reinforcement of sex stereotypes.

[qwerty232]

Well the whataboutery is justified here I think.

[qwerty232]

We, a very small number of people, are in an internet bubble having debates about things that hardly anyone outside of it cares about. Nothing wrong with that essentially, but it's good to keep it in mind.

[M0stlyHet]

Cote - I think you've nailed it. Have you seen the very funny (albeit unintentionally so) video where a transactivist tackles the issue of Danielle Muscato? I think it's linked to on the Magdalen Burns thread.

[Beachcomber]

It's not an internet bubble though. It's the modern way of doing what feminists have always done - consciousness raising. Women know which issues are important to them or not. We know that genderism is of profound importance. So we discuss it.

In previous times those discussions would have happened face to face in women's groups and spaces. Nowadays they also happen in internet spaces - which have the advantage of proximity no longer being an issue but the disadvantage that anyone can interrupt with demands that we stop our consciousness raising because they don't think it's important or they don't see the point of it.

[CoteDAzur]

M0stly - No, I haven't seen it. Do you have a link?

[M0stlyHet]

Here, Cote (I actually think Berns goes over the top with the ridicule at the end - I think simply letting the obvious contradictions speak for themselves would have been far more powerful).

[PoochSmooch]

We, a very small number of people, are in an internet bubble having debates about things

Speak for yourself. I'm also out there organising. Thoughts lead to debates, lead to action, for those of us who this stuff impacts. It is not an intellectual exercise the way it is for you.

[qwerty232]

Speak for yourself. I'm also out there organising. Thoughts lead to debates, lead to action, for those of us who this stuff impacts.

Ok, point taken. But in regards to this issue what action can be taken? What are the concrete goals, as it were?

[CoteDAzur]

"What are the concrete goals, as it were?"

Why do you ask?

I doubt if your goals would be the same as ours, or if you would even understand our goals if we explained them to you.

[qwerty232]

Try Cote, if you wouldn't mind. I'm genuinely interested.

[CharlieSierra]

Ah, Qwerty again, telling us what we should be concerning ourselves with, and seemingly incapable of doing his own research.

[CoteDAzur]

I tried, qwerty. On this thread. What we established was that you are a man who has little idea about what gender is and who doesn't know that hormones affect behaviour rather a lot.

[qwerty232]

Ok Cote.

[CoteDAzur]

Alright then. I'm glad we understand each other.

Off you go to educate yourself before your next appearance on FWR, then.

[TheBogQueen]

He must be doing this as a sort of satire on identity politics, surely.

It is quite funny

[Beachcomber]

A very concrete goal is TO BE WOMAN CENTRIC.

I volunteer in a woman only safe space for prostituted women. A transwoman wanted to volunteer - some of our group didn't see an issue with that, some of us did. We spoke to the women we help, the majority of them had an issue with the possibility of a male person in the space and said that they would no longer use the service if that were the case. We have been able to resist having this happen because we were able to comprehensively and coherently argue our position. We were able to argue our position because we are informed on the subject, we are informed thanks to feminist consciousness raising - most of it happening in internet spaces.

[qwerty232]

Well, surely that was less a matter of 'feminist consciousness raising' and more an issue of asking the prostituted women whether they had a problem with a non-female person volunteering. They said they did, and you acted accordingly.

Obviously, there are issues like that. I certainly don't think men who have undergone gender reassignment should be allowed in female toilets, for example.

But as for the goal of being 'woman centric': should that be the goal of feminism more broadly to your mind?

[CoteDAzur]

"that was less a matter of 'feminist consciousness raising' and more an issue of asking the prostituted women whether they had a problem with a non-female person volunteering"

I hope you are pretending to be thick.

Beach clearly explained that they were able to resist because they could argue their position clearly, thanks to the feminist consciousness raising they were exposed to on the internet.

She did not say that keeping a male away from a female safe space was in itself an example of feminist consciousness raising.

[qwerty232]

Ok Cote.

[Beachcomber]

an issue of asking the prostituted women whether they had a problem with a non-female person volunteering. They said they did, and you acted accordingly.

PMSL at this.

If only is was that simple. We had to argue and justify our position in watertight terms to a funding body, a board and a legal team all of whom knew next to nothing about trans politics and who were coming at our problem from a position which could be summarized as "transwomen are women, you should not be bigoted and refuse this transwoman. It should be explained to the prostituted women who use and need the service that their position is bigoted and ignorant. Plus we are a bit afraid of this going to court."

[CharlieSierra]

You have to ponder why a transwoman would do this, what with being an actual woman and therefore understanding all the nuances and all; but no, pile in, risk disruption to services for women in need, possibly involve them in legal expense, because validation.

[FloraFox]

Validation Charlie . That's usually the reason.

[Beachcomber]

In this particular case I don't think I would be sticking my neck out if I said validation and autogynephilia were the motivation.