Yes, it is another trans thread - attempted murderer Lauren Jeska

[PippaFawcett]

Absolutely no mention AT ALL in the BBC coverage that celebrated 'female' fell runner Lauren Jeska's reason for attempting to murder an athletic official is because she was discovered to be transgender and could have lost her titles, because obviously the women competing against her were at an unfair disadvantage.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-37439875

I was baffled at Jeska's motivation until I read the DM's version: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3801806/Former-fell-running-champion-Lauren-Jeska-admits-attempted-murder-former-rugby-player-Ralph-Knibbs.html#comments

Usual disclaimer that I have no issue with transgender people but this complete denial of the facts of biology does no-one any favours. And I presume this crime will go down as being perpetrated by a woman?

You know as well as i do that Greer, Bindel and Murray do not attack and abuse anyone.

Strange
"I have never suggested that attempted murder is excusable, but it is explicable"

Get a fucking grip. Do you think that trans people are the only ones who suffer abuse and bullying? I could tell you things that would make you age 20 years in an hour yet none of it is a explanation for such violence. Every murderer, peado, abuser in prison or on death row will have a horrific story to tell.

Noone has a monopoly on misery.

Really sad that you didn't engage with any of the points people raised, but just spoke again about how poor abused transwomen are driven to lethal violence by people like Jenni Murray talking. Disappointed in you, strange.

Still think reviving this thread was

'Firestorm' hahahahaha

And nothing in your original post suggested any discussion

Come off it Strange. Jeska wasn't fighting back against abuse, they were fighting for their right to keep their advantage as a biological male in women's sport.

Enough - victims of abuse do this, try to understand their abusers actions in order to predict & stay alive, if dependant on the abuser they often put aside their own experince to maintain the attachment, they rationalise & justify & self blame & extend compassion to the abuser rather than themselves.

Woman are more likely to be abused by those they are dependant on either as children or adults, & some I guess never wake up out of this behaviour.

"The lack of testosterone also reduces our aggression. You cannot believe how nice it is (for us, and for other people) not to be angry all the time!"

Well, thank God Jeska wasn't aggressive eh?

We are supposed to feel sorry for someone who almost killed another person.

Nope.

'Retailiate' what an earth was this person retailiating against? About to get found out? No one's fault but his own. That's not retaliating that's attempted murder, unprovoked

& just as a side note there's a study on the resources thread that links asd & trans but also says that it's grown out of by puberty. We are all on the spectrum in our family, I see one of my kids cling to sex role stereotypes & will leave well enough alone & let it settle as she grows. I was v much a tomboy as a child, hated the idea i would become a woman. But that changed at puberty. I still hated my woman's body & how I was treated bc of it, but I didn't think I shd jump ship

Why do trans women find it so difficult to understand the hatred that women experience from birth? Do they honestly think we waltz through life with no harassment and male violence and that it is all sunshine and lollipops? Such arrogance!

When something snaps, and they kill themselves, no doubt there are some who see that as a good thing
In the case of Jeska we are talking about when something snaps and they attempt to kill someone else. Someone who is a decent principled man who's stood up for oppression in his own life. Someone who was just doing his job.
Suicide of trans people is irrelevant to this. I feel no more sorry for Jeska than all the other murderers with "extenuating circumstances".
Actually can't believe you are spouting such rubbish and think you are helping at all.

picklemepopcorn yes, that's what it reminded me of too. And the family saying Jeska was mild mannered or similar, it's such a familiar pattern now after family annihilation by males.

But Knibbs did not say "the only good tranny is a dead tranny" or "one less pervert" or anything of the kind. Jeska was being neither abused, attacked or discriminated against.

Had Jeska complied with the regulations, then there would have been no issue. They were either cheating or supremely arrogant and conceited, believing they were above the rules - either way, there is no question in my mind that this is a case of narcissistic rage as apposed to "poor downtrodden most oppressed of the oppressed" narrative you are implying. And in saying that, I don't mean that transfolk don't suffer abuse, discrimination and violence (mostly at the hands of misogynistic/homophobic men), because clearly they do, but that wasn't the case here.

Strange - Please don't say non-trans woman. Woman will do just fine thank you.

That poor man. You do a job like be an officiate at athletics, somebody tries to do you in. Because due to the hormones, "they no longer feel that anger"

Well, well well.

Queen I think men think women like it. I think that's why many mtt trans into a man's idea of a woman, lots if make up, sexualised clothing, like caitlin Jenner photo shoot, sexually available and demure all in one. I think men think women like being like this for men, so men think woolf whistling, ass grabbing, boob ogling is pleasing not threatening, & so many men seem to think women like sex work & that 'giving into' mens attension is sexually liberating for women. So they don't really realise, because they put rape & fgm in a different category & don't connect it to how they call us sluts or rate us with mates at the pub or how the male boss has his female assistant get the coffee & bend over etc

Not all men ofcourse, but alot of them, even those who think the respect women do this underneath. They get sucked in by stereotypes growing up too, but ofcourse they have the luxury of not challenging these because they (mostly) benefit from them.

So no I don't think men realise what women go through. & I don't think they really listen when we tell them. Hope that's not too garbled

"According to the Guardian, she had Gender Reassignment Surgery in 2000. So she doesn't have testicles (which produce lots of Testosterone), nor does she have ovaries (which produce the lower levels of testosterone found in non-trans women.

So for the past 17 years, her body has been incapable of creating testosterone."

Did you graduate from Donald Duck's school of medicine???

The Guardian said:

"Following her gender reassignment surgery in 2000"

There's no standard definition for that.

"Sex reassignment surgeries include "complete hysterectomy, bilateral mastectomy, chest reconstruction or augmentation ... including breast prostheses if necessary, genital reconstruction (by various techniques which must be appropriate to each patient ...)... and certain facial plastic reconstruction.""

It certainly is not stated that Jeska has no testicles!

It certainly is not stated that Jeska has no testicles

Transwomen who have surgery would normally be offered orchidectomy and then some kind of vaginoplasty. So I would expect she had had her testicles removed.

The body can still make some testosterone though through other glands.

But some transwomen just have a boob job. There's no standard definition of gender reassignment surgery.

"Women do not commit violence against trans people, males do. Name the problem. It's Male Violence."

But our words are literally killing these fragile souls - apart from the recent non stop number of TW child abusers, rapists, torturers and murderers, axe wielders...Thank god they're not aggressive though.

And keep out of our sports - selfish, deluded cheating narcissists.

Well, they cerainly still have an adam's apple. In this photo of Jeska, I see only male musculature and bone structure.
Given that Jeska may well also be taller and with longer legs than many women, they would seem to have a clear advantage in this sport. And thus may well have robbed women of medals in the events Jeska participated in and won.

I'm sure strange isn't violent or aggressive, but this incessant justification of violent acts using discrimination/oppression is wearing.

The statistics on violence towards transwomen comes mostly from Native Americans and sex workers in Brazil. The picture painted that they are constantly under attack is misleading.

Statistically, transpeople suffer less violence than women, not more.

Transwomen commit violence at exactly the same rate as other men.

The only thing that Jeska was 'retaliating' against was the exposure of her potentially cheating.

She attacked Knibbs in full view of witnesses, premeditatedly. Narcissistic male rage, pure and simple.

And whether she had testicles or not, the tests that she was being asked to comply with were for levels of testosterone.

"I don't agree that what Jeska did was "right" -- or even that it was sensible, or reasonable"

Gosh - EVEN sensible?!

We punish women who finally crack after years of beatings and abuse from male partners as murderers, yet a trans person who wasn't being bullied or abused gets a pass for attempted murder in your book because trans people often experience mental illness?