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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Yes, it is another trans thread - attempted murderer Lauren Jeska

406 replies

PippaFawcett · 22/09/2016 19:40

Absolutely no mention AT ALL in the BBC coverage that celebrated 'female' fell runner Lauren Jeska's reason for attempting to murder an athletic official is because she was discovered to be transgender and could have lost her titles, because obviously the women competing against her were at an unfair disadvantage.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-37439875

I was baffled at Jeska's motivation until I read the DM's version: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3801806/Former-fell-running-champion-Lauren-Jeska-admits-attempted-murder-former-rugby-player-Ralph-Knibbs.html#comments

Usual disclaimer that I have no issue with transgender people but this complete denial of the facts of biology does no-one any favours. And I presume this crime will go down as being perpetrated by a woman?

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sashh · 15/03/2017 15:11

But I can empathise with the mental turmoil she must have been suffering, and I am dismayed that this sad story is being used to whip up even more anti-trans feeling, so as to make more people suffer in the same way.

I am disabled. I don't want to be. I didn't choose to be. I can no longer take part in sports.

It doesn't make me want to murder someone though.

uniquehornsonly · 15/03/2017 15:13

This is my go-to image for people who try to claim that transwomen have no advantage over women in sport because their testosterone levels have dropped. (

T ain't the only difference, folks. In many sports, like basketball as pictured, it's not even the most relevant difference.

Yes, it is another trans thread - attempted murderer Lauren Jeska
Datun · 15/03/2017 15:13

The Athletic Association were about to review her status as a woman and said that she could be stripped of her titles it was ruled that she had an unfair advantage.

Presumably, she did have an unfair advantage otherwise she would have complied with the testing.

Ralph Knibbs was head of HR and welfare at the Association, so that may be why she had a specific beef with him.

It was also noticed that she was autistic. There seems to be a notable connection between autism and transgenderism popping up more and more.

This is the original link.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3801806/Former-fell-running-champion-Lauren-Jeska-admits-attempted-murder-former-rugby-player-Ralph-Knibbs.html#comments

egosumquisum1 · 15/03/2017 15:20

It's an awful story. Lauren's results would probably have been low as well but we'll never know. The victim was just doing his job and paid an awful price for that. I hope he recovers.

Sadly some people are driven to commit such awful crimes when they feel desperate.It can affect their mental state. Being desperate is no excuse at all.

ageingrunner · 15/03/2017 15:59

I don't think he will completely recover. He's lost some of his sight as a result of the attack.

ageingrunner · 15/03/2017 16:01

If Jeska was just a feminine man, and was honest about being such, then this situation would never have arisen. The need for validation as a woman became all-consuming, seemingly

Datun · 15/03/2017 16:07

Knibbs and the Athletic Association knew she was transgender. Because of the testing, and potential review of her status as a woman?

Did the other competitors and her team mates not know?

ageingrunner · 15/03/2017 16:48

I don't know who knew, I just meant that if Jeska had been able to compete in the men's races as a feminine man, then this wouldn't have arisen

HumphreyCobblers · 15/03/2017 17:00

Goodness that is a scary post StrangeAdventure.

You seem to think someone was trying to 'cash' in? I think you'll find they were trying to ensure the rules were adhered to.

Have you no sympathy for the victim here?

ageingrunner · 15/03/2017 17:01

According to the DM 'it is believed she told a handful of people about her sex change'

CharlieSierra · 15/03/2017 17:18

Strange revived this thread from last September in order to tell us they 'didn't approve' of what Jeska did and make excuses for it. Strange, Strange Hmm Also, let's name the problem. Male Violence.

ageingrunner · 15/03/2017 17:21

I'm just looking at a picture of Jeska running and the musculature and shoulder width are obviously male. I really doubt that no one else realised Jeska was a biological male. Female runners just don't have the same body structure and that kind of difference must be advantageous, whatever we are told about tw not having any more muscle than born women because of hormones, the pictures tell a different story 🤷‍♀️

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 15/03/2017 17:28

I know a couple of women who do fell running and knew Jeska and both say they had no idea - Jeska apparently came across as softly spoken and feminine, and of course some sportswomen are physically more masculine looking than average.
I would think if you don't already know it's not so obvious.

enoughisenough12 · 15/03/2017 17:46

There's a similar idea on another thread where Tanya Byron is (quite rightly) being taken to task for ignoring the bullying that a transgender child is meting out to a girl and focusing totally on why a trangsender child might do this and strategies for supporting them - totally ignoring the issues for the girl.
There's a trend here and it's exemplified in the repeated manipulation and minimisation of facts and information about attacks and crimes by transgender people (mainly TG women) - and likely to be why it is so hard to get accurate data.
Shame on you Strange for minimising such a dreadful attack .

ageingrunner · 15/03/2017 18:39

I think it's obvious, but maybe not then

Yes, it is another trans thread - attempted murderer Lauren Jeska
StrangeAdventure · 15/03/2017 20:55

What I intended as a simple, honest comment seems to have whipped up such a firestorm that I don't know where to begin to respond.
First up, perhaps is that I stumbled across this thread, and didn't realise that it was an old thread, because this story is back in the news again.
Second, I am not "long gone": I had to go back to work.
Third, I have never suggested that attempted murder is excusable, but it is explicable. I have been incredibly lucky: I have never personally experienced transphobic attacks or abuse to any significant extent -- unlike a friend of mine who was beaten up and left unconscious in the street outside her home, or the transwoman whose murder was recently videoed and posted on YouTube. But I am acutely aware of the constant barrage of abuse by people such as Greer, Bindel, and Murray who use their privileged positions to attack transpeople in general, and who then use their newspaper columns, chat show invites, and radio programmes to bleat on about how their freedom of speech is infringed if anyone dares to suggest that a bit of fact-checking might be in order.
Transsexuality is not a mental illness, but it does seem to make us prone to mental illnesses about 80% of my trans friends have suffered cllinical depression, and about half of those have seriously considered suicide or attempted it. Others suffer a range of other conditions such as anxiety conditions an PTSD. The common thread in all of these is that they are brought on or exacerbated by the threat of abuse, physical violence, or social alienation of the kind encouraged by so much of the main stream media, and motivated purely by personal gain for those who write the articles.
There are tens of thousands of transsexuals in this country (no-one is certain of the exact number) of whom the vast majority are living normal, unexceptional lives. They include doctors, teachers, airline pilots, nurses, computer programmers, sales people. I happen to be a coach driver with an enhanced DBS to operate school busses, and military security clearance so that I can drive on military establishments. But out of all those thousands, there are bound to be a few who are especially vulnerable to the incessant flood of hatred particularly when it gets personal (or seems to be getting personal). When something snaps, and they kill themselves, no doubt there are some who see that as a good thing -- "the only good tranny is a dead tranny", or "one less pervert". But when something snaps and they retaliate against someone else, that story gets jumped on by the press and used (and reused) to pour more fuel on the flames of transphobic hate.
I had hoped that on Mumsnet there might be room for a discussion of the actual issues. I'm saddened to find that I was wrong, but it's not going to wreck my life -- I've got better things to do, and nicer people to talk to, including my neighbours, friends, and colleagues in real life.

egosumquisum1 · 15/03/2017 21:00

Oh dear. That's not going to end well.

Barcoo2 · 15/03/2017 21:05

Were transwomen physically attacked by the likes of Greer, Bindel, Murray? No? Let's name the problem. Male violence.

PencilsInSpace · 15/03/2017 21:12

StrangeAdventure your posts remind me of the excuses that are made for suicidal men who choose to annihilate their families when they go.

ageingrunner · 15/03/2017 21:14

Male violence, exactly. And in LJ's case, narcissistic rage at being held to account for not giving the samples asked for. This is not the case of a poor disadvantaged tw, this is someone who was successful, very successful in races, and apparently not known as trans by most people who knew them. There is no possible way anyone could defend this person's actions (or so I would have thought) and the fact that you attempt to just speak later volumes

CharlieSierra · 15/03/2017 21:19

Greer, Bindel, and Murray have never attacked transpeople, they have merely pointed out the objective fact that transwomen are male. Women do not commit violence against trans people, males do. Name the problem. It's Male Violence.

SleepWhatSleep1 · 15/03/2017 21:22

I also dispute that Murray et al attacked transwomen.

AssassinatedBeauty · 15/03/2017 21:25

You're suggesting, again, that Jeska faced some kind of wave of transphobic hate from the athletics community which inevitably caused the actions that Jeska took. Which is a nonsense. You also haven't said a word about the victims either.

If you think that what Germaine Greer, Julie Bindel and Jenni Murray have said in the media is a "constant barrage of abuse" then you have lived a very sheltered life, and have clearly never read any of the vitriol and aggressive hate aimed at those women and others like them.

SleepWhatSleep1 · 15/03/2017 21:26

The transwoman i have in my family also had severe MH issues prior to transitioning - so therefore were not caused by trans prejudice. I suspect that holds true for many. Incidentally my family member also has ASD, which is again common. I empathise with their struggles but robustly refute using their trans status as an excuse for violence. Never acceptable.

ageingrunner · 15/03/2017 21:29

I'm reminded of the sky news item where Julie bindel and Jayne fae (tw) were on and JF said that some transwomen she knows are scared of (gasp!) being interviewed by Jenni Murray and Julie Bindel just laughed and said 'you don't know you're born'
Men afraid of being laughed at (or interviewed roughly) and women scared of being killed

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