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Original poster

Transwoman using women's loos at work

999 replies

CharlieSierra · 16/09/2016 20:20

I've posted a bit about this over the past few days on the MN response to Spartacus thread in site stuff, but someone suggested I start a new thread about it here.

Earlier this week I was surprised to encounter an apparently male person in the women's loos at work. I understand from a colleague that they have just started the transitioning process, and it appears from all the research I have done that there is no way to avoid them invading our space. It would be discriminatory to prevent them.
We also have showers, presumably the same applies. I plan to take it up with HR, since none of the women in the building were told this could happen, but I haven't managed to speak to anyone about it yet.
I feel angry, powerless, silenced. It's obvious using the next cubicle that they use the toilet as a man would. We will have to adapt our behaviour, hide any discomfort so as not to make them feel uncomfortable. There are unisex accessible loos on every floor, but no, they want to be in ours. Sad

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
WankingMonkey · 18/09/2016 14:55

Identifying as black is a mental illness. Identifying as an animal is a mental illness. Identifying as disabled is a mental illness. Why is ONE identity crisis treated differently? Genuine question.

Beachcomber · 18/09/2016 14:59

You're welcome WinchesterWoman. I hope Natweb reads it before the next time she comes across someone like me talking about the fetishism aspect of MTT transition.

You only need to get a couple of dozen short pages in to read a transwoman's testimony of vulva and breast prosthetics as important fetishes.

(For clarity I'm using fetish in the standard dictionary definition way - that is it doesn't necessarily have an erotic element, although obviously that doesn't apply to autogynephilia.)

Fetish
: a strong and unusual need or desire for something
: a need or desire for an object, body part, or activity for sexual excitement
: an object that is believed to have magical powers

Original poster
CharlieSierra · 18/09/2016 14:59

Identifying as black is a mental illness. Identifying as an animal is a mental illness. Identifying as disabled is a mental illness. Why is ONE identity crisis treated differently? because Men

OP posts:
WinchesterWoman · 18/09/2016 15:02
MerylPeril · 18/09/2016 15:09

I haven't read the whole thread - too long....

It's just this situation arose any DHs work place - the man transitioning agreed to use the disabled toilets before surgery - since the operation (several years) she has continued.

It's quite sad, I don't think it's worked out the way the individual envisioned.
She hasn't been accepted by the women in the work (it's a very male place of work) and seemed to think that lots of straight men would find her attractive - and they don't. Personality wise I would say she is very male - will spend hours boring you about their (male dominated) hobby.
Increasingly her dress has reverted back to pre-transition

I don't think they had sorted out expectations from the reality of being a woman before the surgery and it seems very wrong.

LozzaChops · 18/09/2016 15:10

Lorelei - Why do trans people have a place in the LGBT+ community? Because trans people, by their nature, subvert heteropatriarchal gender norms. We fit together because we share that difference. Because we've copped the same shit for that difference. Because we share the experience of being oppressed by that heteropatriarchy. Of course there's affinity there.

Take a look at who led the Stonewall Riots. It seems they're the last to benefit from any gains since.

And people stating that gender transition is now being used as a cure for homosexuality - give over. Being gay is no picnic, but do you HONESTLY think living your life as a transgender person is easier?

WinchesterWoman · 18/09/2016 15:12

it is, though, in iran

Original poster
CharlieSierra · 18/09/2016 15:16

Lovely song WW I'll think of it when they send me on a corrective diversity course. Grin

OP posts:
WankingMonkey · 18/09/2016 15:20

And people stating that gender transition is now being used as a cure for homosexuality - give over. Being gay is no picnic, but do you HONESTLY think living your life as a transgender person is easier?

In countries where being gay is seen as unacceptable, yes it is seen as preferable to be trans than gay. Same with very religious people...

Kids who 'identify' as trans and then 'grow out of it' tend to be gay/bi.

Trans is the current 'trend' it seems. Like when I was at school it was cool to be 'bi'

LozzaChops · 18/09/2016 15:22

It is enforced on men in Iran. Nobody chooses it.

natwebb79 · 18/09/2016 15:24

'Trans is the current trend'. And this sums up why I can't be arsed to discuss this any further. Fucking hell.

LozzaChops · 18/09/2016 15:33

WankingMonkey It is seen as preferable to be trans? Are you for real? Seen by whom? By oppressive ideologies and regimes who will kill them if they don't, yes, NOT by gay people themselves.

WankingMonkey · 18/09/2016 15:36

And this sums up why I can't be arsed to discuss this any further. Fucking hell.

It is true though. Much the same as bisexuality was the thing everyone was at school but happened to grow out of once they left. When I was at school, in my class alone 10 girls were 'bisexual'. DSS says in his year now (he is 13) 7 of 30 are 'identifying' as trans. There is always something school kids latch onto to experiment...and hoenstly I see no harm in this BUT when puberty blockers and such are being doled out to teenagers, then its not a 'harmless phase' anymore...its something to worry about

Again, I see huge differences between people who are 'genuinely' 'trapped in the wrong body' (though I understand this term in itself is transphobic?) and those who self-identify. Wearing a dress does not make someone a woman, playing sport does not make someone a man, and so on. The problem here is both sets of people are now classed as the same thing. It is no longer necessary to feel you are in the wrong body or anything..nor to do anything about it. If you were genuinely that distressed with your body and thought you were the opposite sex, you would do everything possible to rectify that..which a lot of trans people do. Problems come, when you can jsut say 'I am woman' and everyon e has to accept that. That is NOT being trans, nor should it be classed that way.

Bambambini · 18/09/2016 15:37

The whole non binary, gnc, stating your pronouns and whether you are pan this or that, demiboy, queer- blah, blah, blah has become a trend. Whole groups of school kids jumping on the bandwagon. They would have just been goths or geeks a few years ago.

natwebb79 · 18/09/2016 15:38

It is not true. Get over yourself.

Bambambini · 18/09/2016 15:40

Tell us your pronouns nateb - Go awn, go awn...

Original poster
CharlieSierra · 18/09/2016 15:42

Oh here we go again, total absence of cogent argument, just insult and shut down.

OP posts:
WankingMonkey · 18/09/2016 15:44

What is not true?

WankingMonkey · 18/09/2016 15:46

The whole non binary, gnc, stating your pronouns and whether you are pan this or that, demiboy, queer- blah, blah, blah has become a trend. Whole groups of school kids jumping on the bandwagon. They would have just been goths or geeks a few years ago.

Exactly. There is always some trend to be following as teenagers. Experimentation is a large part of growing up. I don't much care generally as it is harmless. But when it is becoming more common to actually 'treat' these fads, then it is worrying. There are examples of 11 year olds being given puberty blockers because they don't want to be a woman. It is entirely normal to not want to develop...I was terrified of periods and hated when I started developing breasts. Quite sure a lot of others felt the same?

grannytomine · 18/09/2016 15:48

"granny so despite other women being uncomfortable with it, you decided to impose it on them?

Solidarity, sister."

Well the guys I worked with every day, day in day out, were really nice, friendly people. I felt sorry that they had to trek across a yard in snow and rain to go to the loo. Should I have objected because once in a blue moon a woman came to our office and objected to them sharing a loo? Didn't seem reasonable to me, I was perfectly happy with the arrangement. Do you think I should have lied and said I was uncomfortable when I really wasn't?

Just to be clear none of these men were transgender so not the same as the OPs case but when I was asked if I was OK with the arrangement I told the truth and said I was.

DoinItFine · 18/09/2016 15:49

Because trans people, by their nature, subvert heteropatriarchal gender norms.

Eh?

The very logic of transgenderism is to bolster and strengthen hetero-patriarchal gender norms.

By treating gender, a system of patriarchal oppression, as a real thing that a person has, it has allowed for the reëmergence of beliefs about what girls and women are, based entirely on stereotype.

I reject gender as a patriarchal construct used to control and trivialise women.

Therefore I can't recognise the state of being transgender as anything other than a delusion.

People who want to buy strongly into the idea of gender as something innate are not on side. They are on the side of the people telling me since birth that I was worth less because I was a girl.

grannytomine · 18/09/2016 15:50

Just to be clear, were the unisex loos actually loos for disabled people? I get the impression that is the case and I don't think it is appropriate for able bodied people to be using them. They are there for a reason.

natwebb79 · 18/09/2016 15:50

So because a few kids at a school have dabbled with the idea for a bit of attention you're willing to say that all trans people are just doing it to look cool? I have seriously never heard so much shit in.all my life. The attitudes on this board stink. 'As women we have been oppressed and feel vulnerable'. 'This group of human beings have also been marginalised and feel vulnerable'. 'Fuck em. Me me me me! Aaaaargh!' No wonder feminism still has a stigma attached to it if this kind of tripe is being dished out.

ArcheryAnnie · 18/09/2016 15:52

Take a look at who led the Stonewall Riots.

You mean the Black lesbian, Storme DeLarverie, LozzaChops?

"Transwomen started the Stonewall riots and have been denied the credit for it" is a myth that has been peddled furiously by the extreme trans lobby for the last few years, for political reasons. It has no real basis in fact.

(And FWIW, while transwomen were not the leading actors in the Stonewall riots - and although the whole language and identity politics around gender nonconforming was completely different then anyway so descriptions are misleading - Stonewall itself was not the tipping point in gay liberation that it's been painted as in recent years. It was important, sure, but only as one stop in a long journey that was already well underway by then.)

LozzaChops · 18/09/2016 15:52

Bambambini, The whole non binary, gnc, stating your pronouns and whether you are pan this or that, demiboy, queer- blah, blah, blah has become a trend. Whole groups of school kids jumping on the bandwagon. They would have just been goths or geeks a few years ago

Is it particularly upsetting to you that the way young people are navigating and understanding gender and sexuality is changing? Do you want separate toilets for pansexual women too, in case they start letching over the trans woman who is probably busy letching over woman (born woman) seductively wrestling with the cloth towel dispenser in the corner?

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