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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

MN deleted thread

154 replies

ThreadandInk · 09/07/2016 10:56

I feel sorry for the team at HQ. They deleted the thread about the bathroom issue, and posted this:

"Message from MNHQ: We have removed this thread following several reports.
This thread had personal attacks, general nastiness and transphobic posts on it and we felt that what began as an interesting discussion, became a bit of a slanging match and so we felt it best to remove it."

I agree that the thread did include these. However it also included genuine discussion, cries for help, abused women trying to make their voices heard.

By deleting the whole thread, rather than just the bad, you are telling these women to shut up and put up.

OP posts:
NeedACleverNN · 09/07/2016 21:00

Plus don't forget, as a woman, you will struggle to find many who have not received unwanted attention and/or harrasment either physically or sexually

LilacSpunkMonkey · 09/07/2016 21:02

I wonder if the 'living as a woman' criteria are online anywhere. It would be interesting to see how it is defined. I'd put good money on it being utter crap. Mostly because it's not something women get a choice in. We don't get to have Saturday evening off if we're in the middle of our period.

Louw1988 · 09/07/2016 21:06

Don't you see how this shows that you do think that being a woman is nothing more than hair and make up?

No it's me staring what the doctors told my transfeiend what he needs to do to be classed as a she! I said all along i was stating what doctors said and then got shot down for 'hiding behind doctors'

LilacSpunkMonkey · 09/07/2016 21:07

What do you think living as a woman means?

venusinscorpio · 09/07/2016 21:10

imo people shouting so loudly about transpeople is silencing other women their voices and issues are being lost,

Which issues are being silenced because people on mumsnet discuss trans issues?

BeyondVulvaResistance · 09/07/2016 21:11

Don't forget the fabulous comment (I don't think it was from Lou though) about a trans man "with tattoos and facial piercings".

I am a man.

Felascloak · 09/07/2016 21:16

Actually I don't mind "living as a woman" (although I think it's bollox as women aren't a borg) because at least it shows some commitment to a change.
It's "feeling like a woman" as the only criteria I object to. Totally meaningless.

Louw1988 · 09/07/2016 21:18

LilacSpunkMonkey Personally I would say it's being known as a woman by others. There is no physical way someone can be a woman if they were not born a woman I know that and said that before but I don't think it was right that people were being so rude about people born in the wrong body
I was tired and it was the day of my late brothers wedding anniversary so I was emotional - no excuse for what I called other people or said when I said 'more a woman then you' but I WAS being spoken to like something they had just trod in!

HermioneWeasley · 09/07/2016 21:21

I have threads which are much more offensive that have been allowed to stand.

I'm really pissed off.

LilacSpunkMonkey · 09/07/2016 21:22

God, yes, feeling like a woman. As if anyone can say how that feels. Which is why 'born in the wrong body' is balls. I'm a size 22. If I start 'feeling like Claudia Schiffer' does that mean in a year I'm actually a supermodel? No. Because even if I lost ten stone, dyed my hair blonde and changed me name to Claudia Schiffer I would still be transferred Claudia and not actually her.

BeyondVulvaResistance · 09/07/2016 21:27

Don't blame you herm. I wonder if there's a trigger happy newbie at hq and they're doing the Borg thing like NYE?

LilacSpunkMonkey · 09/07/2016 21:35

And yet the 'does Serena Williams have an Adams apple' thread is still there, including the poster where the OP said she thought Serena 'was a fella'.

And someone has posted on that thread that HQ have replied to a report to say they don't like deleting threads because it's censorship!

Unless it's a thread about transwomen, clearly.

Felascloak · 09/07/2016 21:38

That serena thread is exceptionally offensive imo.
Obviously it's ok to speculate that a black female athlete is really a fella. But not ok to call a male bodied person born and raised a man a man Hmm

LilacSpunkMonkey · 09/07/2016 21:44

Well, yes, because she's black AND female, so double whammy of below the men.

HermioneWeasley · 09/07/2016 21:52

MNHQ can you please explain why the weeing in front of a TW thread had to be deleted, but the serena one has been allowed to stand?

Our delicate ladybrains must be all confunded because it's not clear to a number of us.

Thanks.

SevenFtBride · 09/07/2016 22:15

Agree that the serena thread is awful. Biscuit to MNHQ decision making tonight

OlennasWimple · 09/07/2016 22:35

Is it OK to C&P emails received from MNHQ in response to reported threads, or is that considers Bad Form?

BeyondVulvaResistance · 09/07/2016 23:32

I think so Olenna, I know I've certainly done it before?

MonkeysWAGMug · 09/07/2016 23:51

I would C&P but I'd take the HQ respondent's name off the end of the email. Especially if they're new to HQ.

I feel for one of the new people today as they must have had the day at work from hell viz the Serena Williams thread and the one being discussed here. They're still learning the role and it can't be easy to have your new-to-the-role work decisions/mistakes discussed publically.

KateInKorea · 10/07/2016 06:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BungoWomble · 11/07/2016 22:06

"What do you think living as a woman means?"

I think it means: being treated as a dirty bit of tissue fit only for men to wank into and discard at their inclination. Being repeatedly told that every bad thing that men do in the world is the nearest woman's fault. Being told you are weak and vulnerable and therefore worthless when the truth is any one person is weak and vulnerable to a whole group of others, and the history of humanity and our evolution shows we are a social species. Being able to bear young and then getting shafted economically. Beyond that there are few commonalities between women. No hair or makeup choices, certainly.

I really have always struggled to understand why men want to become women to be perfectly honest. I have no trouble understanding transpeople the other way or the number of women on antidepressants.

PinkyofPie · 11/07/2016 23:12

Excellent post Bungo. It hasn't escaped my notice that in TW bid to be more womanly they aren't as willing to accept lower salaries and second-class citizenship. We'll be women but keep our male privelege please

BungoWomble · 12/07/2016 11:44

Everything I read about MtF transpeople has always stressed the hair and make up angle. It's just props for goodness sake. They have no idea, can have no idea, and that really demonstrates to me, more even than the sociobiological theory tbh, how the whole 'feels like a woman' is totally ludicrous.

I really liked cotedazur's post on the deleted thread - unfortunately it's deleted of course so I can't get at it now - about all the other types of body dysphoria, those people who really feel that they should have one less limb or really need to have steel bars inserted in their arms or whatever. No less real to the individual than gender dysphoria and every little bit as much an individual mental health problem. I don't suppose you're around to re-post it are you Cote?

BeyondBeyondBeyondBeyondBeyond · 12/07/2016 11:57

Cote isn't usually far away Grin

Louw1988 · 12/07/2016 12:33

BungoWomble Your post really touched me then
I'm a woman but I have never felt that way and it saddens me to think anyone does
I suppose I've been lucky, I met my husband at 16 and have been happy ever since. We bicker don't get me wrong but he treats me like his equal, not delicately or like crap but equal. I've worked really hard to get where I have career wise and paid ver well - not more or less then my male colleagues as we all start on the same band and get raises depending on how long you've been there
Soon I hope to go it alone and my fees will be the same as any males

I was brought up in a well balanced home with both mum and dad working full time to provide so never experienced any discrimination for being a woman
I hope my children are the same
I think it does speak volumes though on why I'm so open to transgender people