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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

MN deleted thread

154 replies

ThreadandInk · 09/07/2016 10:56

I feel sorry for the team at HQ. They deleted the thread about the bathroom issue, and posted this:

"Message from MNHQ: We have removed this thread following several reports.
This thread had personal attacks, general nastiness and transphobic posts on it and we felt that what began as an interesting discussion, became a bit of a slanging match and so we felt it best to remove it."

I agree that the thread did include these. However it also included genuine discussion, cries for help, abused women trying to make their voices heard.

By deleting the whole thread, rather than just the bad, you are telling these women to shut up and put up.

OP posts:
BeyondVulvaResistance · 09/07/2016 13:13

I didn't read the end of the asd thread so this may have been covered, but as a disabled female with a male carer (who according to these ideas would be in the men's changing?) does my bodily autonomy count for nothing? So the boy can't express his feelings, doesn't mean he's happy to be in the female changing facilities, does it?
Anyway, OT.

BeyondVulvaResistance · 09/07/2016 13:14

Thread, have you just changed your name? I didn't realise you were that poster Flowers

Original poster
ThreadandInk · 09/07/2016 14:24

Yes, I changed this morning. I was having a little woe weed. I am over myself now. Thanks for the hugs. I got this, I got time to build a career, and the telephone number of an amazing lawyer.

I will bloody well show the world what this woman can do.

OP posts:
singingsixpence82 · 09/07/2016 15:05

We can still try to continue the same discussion without the personal nastiness which I think most would agree was the main issue. MNHQ didn't say they thought the thread was transphobic - they left that open and vague by simply linking to their guidelines on transphobia.

but I was then being attacked basically saying they are not woman and what is living like a woman etc..

Louw I don't think this kind of response is an attack on you, it's just disagreement with the idea that a male person can become a woman through concerted effort which is a solid point. I agree though that comments about your potential age and spelling were unnecessary.

There is a general trans thread if anyone wants to move any particular parts of the discussion over there (not sure if this will count as a TAAT.

PinkyofPie · 09/07/2016 16:58

As soon as I said they have rights I was heavily verbally attacked and penilised just because of how I felt on the matter

Give over. You told us we were all bitches when we asked what "living as a woman" meant, and told us a person born male was more of a woman than we were

PinkyofPie · 09/07/2016 17:02

Anyway, these gender critical (NOT transphobic) discussions throw up some really valid points - such as what is defined 'woman' without a depressing sexist stereotype of nice hair and make up - and with every thread comes a new member saying "wow I didn't think of it like that". Challenging stereotypes, especially when it comes to women, is never a bad thing.

These discussion also educate people on the horrors on transactivism such as the horrific cotton ceiling concept. I'm disappointed MNHQ deleted the whole thread, I'm very worried this is the start of gender critical censorship.

PinkyofPie · 09/07/2016 17:10

Also thread/notwhat I have followed your story throughout threads, I think your story is critically important in the gender critical narrative. When we peg people as 'brave' for taking up gender stereotypes we forgot they often leave a family behind and the immense pain that comes with that is swept under the carpet, and I've even seen women on this site being criticised for not accepting their husband's sudden urge to wear a dress and make up. Behind all the fluff of "live and let live, it's 2016" there are people like you whose experiences are minimised. Yet again, women's feeling take a back seat. I think you're very brave and hope you come out of it happily Flowers

WeMustSurelyBeLearning · 09/07/2016 17:33

lou absolutely no one on that thread said or thinks that trans women shouldn't have rights. Just that their rights shouldn't trump those of women. originally you said that trans should have 'more rights' btw.

So people disagreed with you, and you called them bitches and said that your trans friend was more woman than them. Sounds exactly what a misogynist would say so are you really surprised you got people's backs up? Aside from the 'are you 12 comment', I don't recall any personal attacks at you? More people disagreeing with you and asking you what living as a woman means.

The thread shouldn't have been deleted. It's just another example of women's voices on this issue being silenced

thread Flowers I heard what you had to say and remember you. I'm glad you spoke up and I admire your strength

Louw1988 · 09/07/2016 18:14

WeMustSurelyBeLearning
Spelling, being 12, referring to how the doctors explain 'living as a woman' I was jumped on. Anyway as I said on another thread I will stay away from the feminists from now on.
I had a different view point
I tried my best to stick up for transgender
I got shot down for it not just disagred with iMo
I didn't report the thread or talk to anyone about it so others must have thought badly about it as well

PinkyofPie · 09/07/2016 18:19

Lou once again you couldn't provide a proper explanation for what you said and insulted pretty much every other poster saying they were less of a woman than someone biologically male. You were 'jumped on' for that not for sticking up for trans people.

Feminism is not your problem here

Louw1988 · 09/07/2016 18:21

The comment I made about being more of a woman was like the term 'more of a man I'll ever be'.. Etc as in more grown up
I've apologised for insulting anyone but as yet had no apoligy from anyone! Says a lot to me tbh!

Louw1988 · 09/07/2016 18:21

And i was jumped on way before that comment or the bitches comment - hence me making them!

Felascloak · 09/07/2016 18:38

I hate it when people come and play the victim on other threads. No one has anything to apologise to you for. Not our fault that you couldn't explain your perspective and we were only asking questions.
Clearly you do have a view what a woman is but you weren't willing to share and started venting instead.

Felascloak · 09/07/2016 18:40

Convenient for you that the thread was deleted really.

Louw1988 · 09/07/2016 18:42

Felascloak I'm not the one playing the victim am I!!!!!? Whatever, anyway I'm not wasting any more of my time talking or trying to reason with narrow minded bullies! Go moan about woman being treated second to men, i have no grumbles with the way woman are treated to be honest!

Felascloak · 09/07/2016 18:45

Oh are feminists mean? Lol

PinkyofPie · 09/07/2016 18:55

i have no grumbles with the way woman are treated to be honest!

Yes you've made that abundantly clear. Therein lies the problem of TA - women aren't seen to be as oppressed or important enough

WeMustSurelyBeLearning · 09/07/2016 19:18

Your idea of living like a woman is wearing make up, dresses and having long hair. Posters were simply pointing out that there are many females who don't do that so by your reckoning they must be men. You had no answer for that so you went on the attack. simple as that. Can you not see how that idea of 'womanhood' is outdated and sexist? I don't see how pointing that out is transphobia?

Louw1988 · 09/07/2016 20:45

I did not say that being a woman was hair and make up at all!! I was asked what living like a woman meant and I said the doctors terms of 'living like a woman' included waking with the mentality of being a woman, getting ready as a woman (I.e hair and make up)

FloraFox · 09/07/2016 20:48

Being "more of a man" is a massively patriarchal notion. It means being strong, dominant etc when you shouldn't be because you are a woman or a boy. Not helping yourself Louw

VestalVirgin · 09/07/2016 20:50

I was asked what living like a woman meant and I said the doctors terms of 'living like a woman' included waking with the mentality of being a woman, getting ready as a woman (I.e hair and make up)

And what do you think "waking with the mentality of being a woman" means? Don't hide behind doctors' terms.

What do you mean by "living as a woman"?

MrsJayy · 09/07/2016 20:52

Thing is that we cant talk about this without it turning nasty transphobia is quite prominent on mumsnet and a lot of comments can be perceived as hate speech this is why womens voices cant be heard imo people shouting so loudly about transpeople is silencing other women their voices and issues are being lost,

Louw1988 · 09/07/2016 20:53

I don't know vestelvirgin I didn't once claim to be an expert I just posted my view point that transgender people didn't deserve to be spoken about like it and disrespected

LilacSpunkMonkey · 09/07/2016 20:55

I don't do hair and makeup the vast majority if the time. Does this mean I'm not a woman? I also wear jeans most days. Am I a man?

There is no such thing as living as a woman, in my opinion, because there is no such thing as a typical woman. Women come in all shapes and sizes. There is no one size fits all. Yet 'living as a woman' appears to mean behaving like a Barbie doll come to life. It's all about the clothes, hair and makeup, because a man can't have periods, be pregnant, have a uterus, etc. Living as a woman should mean being paid less and living with street harassment from a very early age.

BungoWomble · 09/07/2016 20:59

"getting ready as a woman (I.e hair and make up)" Don't you see how this shows that you do think that being a woman is nothing more than hair and make up?