MN deleted thread

[ThreadandInk]

I feel sorry for the team at HQ. They deleted the thread about the bathroom issue, and posted this:

"Message from MNHQ: We have removed this thread following several reports.
This thread had personal attacks, general nastiness and transphobic posts on it and we felt that what began as an interesting discussion, became a bit of a slanging match and so we felt it best to remove it."

I agree that the thread did include these. However it also included genuine discussion, cries for help, abused women trying to make their voices heard.

By deleting the whole thread, rather than just the bad, you are telling these women to shut up and put up.

I agree. Either it's a banned conversation altogether or MNHQ have to take a more painstaking but fairer approach and delete posts and remove repeat offenders.

Which was exactly what the OP was fighting against.

This is a tough issue, the OP was about women's voices not being heard, about women being able to say no.

By killing the whole debate because of a few loudmouths, you tell all the small voices that they don't matter.

I 100% agree and it's happening more and more. Especially as Mnet has become a beacon for discussing transphobia and teams rights.

Let's not pretend for one minute that it has been chosen as its seen as a predominantly female space on the Internet. I don't see Pie & Boveril having these after thread over this? I'm uncomfortable with the whole conversations being shut down too, and brief, often unfair sound bite as to why putting more justification to those that should loudest ... Rather than those that want reason.

I would much rather they deleted every single bad post, and prevented more, than this blanket deletion.

Sad. I would have expected better from MNHQ. I registered on this site specifically because this is the only site I could find that has a feminist forum where actual feminism is discussed.

I would have thought they wouldn't silence women here just because it is less work ... I still hold hope that silencing women wasn't the primary intention.

It is probably because they are worried about controversy. I hope it isn't because they are censoring a viewpoint.

When you say bad post, do you mean mine when All I was doing was sticking up for transgender people? I'm glad the thread got taken down, it was transphobic and utterly shameful!

I believe their are clear guidelines about nasty comments. Those are the comments which should be deleted. Not opposing viewpoints, not women's real life experiences.

Well you can claim anything you want about that thread now Louw because it's gone and nobody will be able to prove you are lying or exaggerating about what was actually posted.

Mn feminism should primarily be a place where MN demographic types can discuss feminism. There are a billionty places online for trans support and transactivism. It's a sad day when even on the feminism board we can't speak of biological facts and lived female experience.

Yes I agree but the whole thread was turnt into nasty comments wasn't it. As soon as someone came along with a different view point it was turnt into a witch hunt! Just for having a different view
Yes i retaliated and my post was deleted, for which I'm sorry I called people bitches but I was upset at how I was being spoken too. I left the thread and since its been taken down AFTER my comment was deleted which leads me to assume that mnhq saw that it was the rest of the posts which where transphobic and out of line

It's a great shame, because it posed a genuine and interesting question - where you have conflicting rights (a transwoman's right to take up any employment they choose, including in this case overseeing women giving urine samples for drugs testing; versus a woman's right to say whether people looking at her genitals should be of the same biological sex as her), how do you resolve the conflict? We do need spaces to discuss these issues, and issues like women in sport and the impact of allowing transwomen to compete with levels of testosterone up to 3 or 4 times higher than that naturally occurring in women, and so forth.

I also noticed on that thread that there were a lot of new registrations so I suspect some sort of bat-signal went out to the tumblr-sphere, and that's what's actually driven the deletion - the threat of a concerted campaign to smear mumsnet as "transphobic" across a lot of social media.

I don't think either side (Lou) can claim it as a victory for their point of view, because everything, good and bad, was deleted.

I have posted a link in Feminist chat to a TED talk which discussed women's complicity in their devalued ambitions.

It seems relevant to this debate.

PaulDacresMicroPenis I don't care if people think I'm lying tbh
I saw the thread in the active section and being new to mn I didn't realise non-feminists where not allowed to stick up for transgender people
As soon as I said they have rights I was heavily verbally attacked and penilised just because of how I felt on the matter
It's 2016 and we should be more accepting!

Ok Lou, please keep this thread about the debate, no one is attacking you.

If you mentioned that trans people have rights and were then horribly attacked then that's not on. But I very much doubt that's what happened. You said 'bitches' on a feminist board?

Your voice is welcome, as is anyone's who can talk about the issue without getting personally offensive.

My post wasn't about the original post, it was in response to how people had posted since and what was being said
I make an apology for calling people bitches I'm sorry but I was tired and upset with what I had saw and how I was being spoken too but I make NO apology for sticking up for people, transgender, gay, straight, disabled what ever!
And FYI I never reported the thread or discussed it with anyone else. I went to bed after I gave up on it!

The thread was going in a direction which questioned the umbrella term of "Trans" and whether one word fits all.

No you weren't "heavily verbally attacked". You were disagreed with, and you didn't like it.

I wish I could "like" comments.

MorrisZapp That is exactly what happened. Because I used the term 'living like a woman' which is what the doctors say but I was then being attacked basically saying they are not woman and what is living like a woman etc.. I was trying to explain what it mean I.e hair, make up, dress and got slated as woman are more then just hair and make up - yes I agree but I was stating the actual a of how a person proves to the doctors they are serious

It's good to discuss it and debate but to be accused of being a 12 year old and have nasty digs about my spelling (well iPhones auto correct!) was not on. I agree this thread is not an attack on me and I want to explain myself because I was generally miffed at how my post could have caused so much Agro!

venusinscorpio No not at all - when I was being accused of being 12 when I'm actually married with kids, and my spelling being brought into it, it's personal and not about the thread is it?!

There are also arguments about this thread on site stuff from various people within the disabled community. I didn't see the thread but from the sounds of it it pitched the rights of disabled people up against the rights of women?

It was also started as a complete wind up by a previously banned poster to cause upset. Take a look in site stuff.