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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

MN deleted thread

154 replies

ThreadandInk · 09/07/2016 10:56

I feel sorry for the team at HQ. They deleted the thread about the bathroom issue, and posted this:

"Message from MNHQ: We have removed this thread following several reports.
This thread had personal attacks, general nastiness and transphobic posts on it and we felt that what began as an interesting discussion, became a bit of a slanging match and so we felt it best to remove it."

I agree that the thread did include these. However it also included genuine discussion, cries for help, abused women trying to make their voices heard.

By deleting the whole thread, rather than just the bad, you are telling these women to shut up and put up.

OP posts:
MorrisZapp · 09/07/2016 11:50

Those examples don't sound like attacks to be honest. That's just what it's like on here, we talk, we disagree and we challenge everything. Personal attacks are not allowed, there is a report button on every post.

Original poster
ThreadandInk · 09/07/2016 11:50

I believe that the point of "what a woman is?" Is a valid one.

For me, being a woman is not about hair and makeup and liking thing my socialisation has caused me to deem "female".

I am a woman, I like all the things I like, I don't need to fit a stereotype to validate my Womanhood.

Nor, if you choose to fit the stereotype, does that demean your womanhood.

OP posts:
PaulDacresMicroPenis · 09/07/2016 11:51

I agree with Lurcio about the bat signal, I've seen MN threads about these issues being called transphobic on Twitter etc

Original poster
ThreadandInk · 09/07/2016 11:51

Bishop, no it wasn't about disabled people.

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OP posts:
venusinscorpio · 09/07/2016 11:59

venusinscorpio No not at all - when I was being accused of being 12 when I'm actually married with kids, and my spelling being brought into it, it's personal and not about the thread is it?!

Par for the course on MN I'm afraid. Get used to it. It doesn't normally get posts deleted, let alone whole threads.

Original poster
ThreadandInk · 09/07/2016 11:59

I have changed my name. I spoke in the thread as "notwhatiwasexpecting". I spoke about my issues with my husband, his cross dressing and abusive behaviour. I wasn't rude, I hope I didn't insult anyone.

When MN deleted the thread it made me feel incredibly small. I changed my name because I felt I had disclosed too much, and that basically I wasn't allowed to talk about my experiences.

But I am fed up with being small and ignored and told to shut up and put up. I am fed up of being second class.

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Original poster
ThreadandInk · 09/07/2016 12:01

I am sick and tired of being told by men and women, that I have no right to feel uncomfortable. That their opinions are more valid than my experience.

Come and live in my house and see if it is the shangri la of equality and progressive marriage.

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LurcioAgain · 09/07/2016 12:03

Threadandlink - Flowers. I remember your posts, I thought you spoke very eloquently about what you were being put through, and you have no need to feel small at all. I think you are a wonderfully strong and brave woman to speak out as you did.

venusinscorpio · 09/07/2016 12:06

Bishop, the thread in Site Stuff is about one about Dads bringing their children into the women's loos. The disabled loos were mentioned in that thread. Not the one being talked about here.

venusinscorpio · 09/07/2016 12:08

ThreadandIlink - your perspective is badly needed. Sometimes MNHQ takes the decision to delete threads because they have turned into a bunfight. Often it's the wrong decision, I believe it was in this case. Please don't feel that you need to STFU about your lived experience.

HPFA · 09/07/2016 12:13

I read this thread and contributed to it and I certainly didn't see anything offensive on it. People were politely asked to justify their statements and immediately started squeaking "transphobic".

BeyondVulvaResistance · 09/07/2016 12:16

Bishop, it was a separate thread to the changing room one, it was about a piss test being done (the kind where they have to actually watch you pee) by a Mtt.

I know - I have both in my tio Grin

MrsWooster · 09/07/2016 12:18

Like Lurcio, I remember your post and thought you were brave, honest and insightful. I am a longstanding lurker on the feminism board and it has made a fundamental change in my perspective; not by making me a feminist but by reminding me of all the things i have come to take for granted. Lou, consider whether barrelling onto a board like this with the attitude of sticking up for transwomen, disabled "or what ever" is a thoughtful response or a kneejerk check-out-how-liberal-I-am one.

I know a transwoman who is struggling desperately with her identity and my heart breaks for her. This doesnt alter the fact that a woman has a vagina and a man or a pre-op transwoman has a penis, however much they may identify as a woman. I wish there were easy ways round everyday situations like loos but until there are male / female/free toilets it won't be and as women (not cis, or biological women) we need spaces that do not contain penises, however super they are in context and whoever they are attached to.

BeyondVulvaResistance · 09/07/2016 12:20

And then there is yet another one, which is...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2679712-to-think-its-OK-for-a-guy-to-be-in-the-ladies-if-hes-with-his-daughter?

BeyondVulvaResistance · 09/07/2016 12:23

And no, I don't think the entire thread about the pisstest was 'beyond the pale' (sorry to those who don't like that saying)

"Transphobic" posts were being deleted as per guidelines, and numbernames were throwing personal attacks all over the place. So delete as per guidelines, don't delete the whole thread.

Original poster
ThreadandInk · 09/07/2016 12:24

It was actually really great for me to hear voices who were in contradiction to mine. I am living with one man, he doesn't represent the Trans movement. It is good to hear of others experience which are good and positive.

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meditrina · 09/07/2016 12:32

It's MN's choice what they delete.

There have been HUGE threads about feminism on MN. And the upshot is that it's just another topic. MN is not, and does not ever claim to be, a 'beacon' for feminism, not matter how much regulars in FWR wish it was.

I am far more bothered when a bereavement thread on which people have shared RL experiences proves to have been a bad one.

HoneyDragon · 09/07/2016 12:33

which leads me to assume that mnhq saw that it was the rest of the posts which where transphobic and out of line

Are it could've been deleted because the HQer was tired and had had enough? Deletions are not done to any thread to validate a posters point of view. There are deleted because those running the site don't want them there anymore.

Felascloak · 09/07/2016 12:35

thread Flowers

louw unfortunately people will react if you come on a thread with a poorly thought through position, make contradictory statements like "I know my trans friend can never be the same as a woman, but he's more of a woman than you lot are" and call posters bitches. Posters on that thread (including me) tried to engage with you honestly and you were rude and insulting to us. So please stop trying to rewrite what happened.

With respect to the thread deletion, I can see why that happened because the article linked in the OP was pretty offensive to trans people and women. I can see why Hermione linked it and some aspects of the discussion were useful. I hope it is an isolated deletion not the start of more threads being deleted.

BeyondVulvaResistance · 09/07/2016 12:39

"hope it is an isolated deletion not the start of more threads being deleted."

Yy

Lurkedforever1 · 09/07/2016 12:40

bishop the thread you are thinking of was about a woman objecting to an older child with asd in the women's changing rooms. The majority view was that the woman's method of objecting was out of order, but older boys shouldn't be in the women's changing rooms and op had a valid reason to use the disabled changing room. It then became disabled versus women because it was suggested that regardless of age the person with a disability trumps womens rights. (Paraphrasing but that was the gist)

It got taken down because the op was suspect, rather than because of anything said. Not making this into a taat, just explaining what happened.

Felascloak · 09/07/2016 12:42

The changing room threads were bizarre. Glad at least one of them is gone

glenthebattleostrich · 09/07/2016 13:10

But these are the discussions we need to have. Does my body autonomy only count as long as no one else isn't offended? I mean, so you think I have the right to refuse an intimate examination from a trans person or a man? Ot does their right to not be offended or upset trump my right to say what goes on with my body?

Thread, throughout the last thread I just wanted to give you a huge hug. We need to hear stories like yours to ensure a full debate is possible. Thanks