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Original poster

Trans people to be JAILED in Alabama town if they go to "the wrong toilet"

999 replies

katmanwho · 28/04/2016 16:53

Unbelievable. There has been a lot of hate recently in North Carolina with the bathroom bill. But this has got a lot worse. [ www.al.com/news/anniston-gadsden/index.ssf/2016/04/oxford_passes_law_aimed_at_tar.html]

So a transwoman will have to go the male bathroom. A transman in the female one. There's been cases of butch women being hassled already in female toilets.

Oh - and if you're in North Carolina and witness someone who you think is in the wrong bathroom, you can call the hotline.

Meanwhile, a convicted sex offender (who is also Ex Republican House Speaker) is allowed to go the male bathroom with boys.

The only good thing about this bill is that it's made people react to the discrimination and to show that many people think this is discrimination. Just like in the 60s. Apparently trans people are sexual deviants.

This is the real effect of hate.

Trans people to be JAILED in Alabama town if they go to "the wrong toilet"
OP posts:
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ApocalypseSlough · 28/04/2016 19:04

user it's not an opinion I'd share unguardedly because I could lose my job! Anyone who works in the judiciary or education or the NHS and has concerns that people with penises can access women's services can't voice those concerns.

user7755 · 28/04/2016 19:09

That's an interesting perspective Apocalypse. I know where you are coming from in terms of those jobs, but if, as some people on here believe - the view is entirely reasonable and rational how on earth could someone be sacked for it?

PennyDreadfuI · 28/04/2016 19:13

We have separate cubicles, we are not talking about sharing cubicles but the outside space. We are no more vulnerable in that space than many other spaces

Did you read the previous link about a man dressed as a woman filming women under the dividing wall of a toilet cubicle?

You honestly don't think that a woman with her knickers around her ankles with just a flimsy cubicle door in front of her is no more vulnerable than if she were, say, in a shop or at the theatre? Really?

And you don't think that a man in a women's changing room - however discreetly you yourself might get changed - would not make for at best uneasiness, at worst (and more realistically) women in what is meant to be a safe place feeling threatened?

PennyDreadfuI · 28/04/2016 19:14

*You honestly think

ApocalypseSlough · 28/04/2016 19:16

Obviously I believe I'm reasonable and rational Wink but the reality is that if I ran a women's group for victims of DV and refused access to a pre op transgender woman I'd be the wrong side of the law.
Here
That's why people are owning opinions here you don't hear in real life.

PennyDreadfuI · 28/04/2016 19:17

ridiculous 1970s style stereotypes

Such as?

HermioneWeasley · 28/04/2016 19:19

Really user? You've never seen other women naked or undressed, however briefly, when using the changing rooms and showers at a gym or swimming pool?

I'm hardly exhibitionist, but I'm briefly naked in the changing room before wrapping a towel around me. No big deal, it's nothing but other women there. If there was someone visibly male I would feel very uncomfortable and I'd leave.

PennyDreadfuI · 28/04/2016 19:24

Apocalypse where exactly is the line drawn? Will there come a time (if it's not already here) where transwomen will by law to live in women's refuges?

Do you think, OP and user that transwomen who present as male should be able to live alongside women in refuges? Am I being horribly discriminatory for suggesting otherwise?

user7755 · 28/04/2016 19:25

I dont think that if a man wants to film a woman going to the toilet, he would need to go to those lengths - in fact, I know he wouldn't. If he wants to, he will.

Clearly, from what I read on here, there are people who would feel uncomfortable but I wouldn't have thought it based on conversations with friends and family. But then again I didn't know people changed their tampons in public until I came on here.

I think that if people had those view Apocalypse, they would just not express an opinion, I find it hard to believe that people would overtly lie about it. But to be fair, most of my friends are VERY politically incorrect, they really don't worry about what they say and who they will upset!

shins · 28/04/2016 19:25

I think many supporting the NC boycott (and Bruce Springsteen can fuck off: what about boycotting places that don't provide legal abortion or is feminism so 20th century?) blindly lump trans rights in with gay rights and other progressive causes without thinking about it. Which is why this place is so valuable for actual discussion rather than ranting and slogans.

RortyCrankle · 28/04/2016 19:26

It's really easy. A transperson who has a penis should use the men's loo and a transperson with a vagina, the women's loo. The same goes for prisons, changing rooms, shelters and women-only spaces.

It's not just MN posters - I have talked about this with friends and family aged from 16 to 89 and they all, without exception agree with me.

user7755 · 28/04/2016 19:27

Such as?

This....

None of us want to share toilets with beefy, bearded 'women'.

ScoutsMam · 28/04/2016 19:29

I dont think that if a man wants to film a woman going to the toilet, he would need to go to those lengths - in fact, I know he wouldn't.

Maybe check out some of the links and videos that were posted earlier.

ApocalypseSlough · 28/04/2016 19:30

Penny that's exactly what the law proposes. To access womens' services will be via self identification and anyone challenging it will be committing an offence. Just as it is quite rightly illegal to discriminate against someone because of their race it will be illegal to refuse access to services on the grounds that someone is a woman if they say they are.

WeDoNotSow · 28/04/2016 19:30

User, many people I know in real life would disagree with this law, I'd say.
But then I reckon most people I know in real life think trans people will at some point want to have reassignment surgery and transition, and not proudly talk of beards and 'lady sticks'

ApocalypseSlough · 28/04/2016 19:31

Edit: that someone is a woman if they say they are.
Should be that someone is a not a woman if they say they are.

WeDoNotSow · 28/04/2016 19:34

I think you're the one stereotyping user

A lots of trans people nowadays are 'women' yet 'present' as men.

Ie men with no intention of reassignment surgery just claiming to be women, and expecting women to go along with it...

PennyDreadfuI · 28/04/2016 19:36

user a beefy, bearded 'woman'. With a penis. Not a 'ridiculous 1970s stereotype'. A fact.

Trans people to be JAILED in Alabama town if they go to "the wrong toilet"
MailonlineEffOff · 28/04/2016 19:36

I don't want to upset OP. I will say that conversation I have had in rl is very different to your view. I know of only one person who has an opinion like OP, they called GG a dinosaur.

thecraftyfox · 28/04/2016 19:37

User77. You did see that picture of Danielle (formerly David) Muscato. Danielle is a transwoman. We're not making this up you can see it on Danielle's own Facebook page m.facebook.com/daniellemuscato.page/

user7755 · 28/04/2016 19:39

Some men, may have gone to those lengths but many, many more (I would bet) have done it through other means.

People's ideas may be skewed - I'm sure they are. I'm sure that mine are too. But equally this notion of the ill intentions of trans people is also skewed in many respects.

My personal belief is live and let live, don't judge everyone by the behaviour of a few and that one group of people's rights don't trump anyone else's.

And it makes me cross when people speak on behalf of a group that I am part of and by default speak for me (especially when I disagree).

MailonlineEffOff · 28/04/2016 19:40

You would only require one stall for a unigender loo/bathroom as there is only one stall for a unisex people with disabilities, opening out. Then have the standard male/female loo.

PennyDreadfuI · 28/04/2016 19:41

Apocalypse that's genuinely terrifying. I've been a victim of DV and lived in a refuge with DD when she was tiny. I felt safe for the first time in years, as did DD. The idea that a man might have been outside my door on our shared landing, using our shared toilet facilities, just being there full stop actually makes me feel physically sick. DD was terrified of men for a long while after we left the marital home; imagine if she, as a frightened and confused three year old, had encountered one in the dimly lit corridor when she got up for a wee in the night. I feel tearful just thinking of the possibility.

User you're cool with this I take it? Because this is the reality of this. This is what you're supporting.

HermioneWeasley · 28/04/2016 19:47

My personal belief is live and let live, don't judge everyone by the behaviour of a few and that one group of people's rights don't trump anyone else's.

So why is the delusion of a tiny group of men being put above the needs of women for privacy and safety?

PennyDreadfuI · 28/04/2016 19:47

the ill intentions of trans people

Do you not get it, user? Nobody is suggesting transwomen are all rapists. What we're saying is a) women only spaces should remain as such and b) as has been widely linked to on this thread, there are men/sex offenders who will manipulate laws allowing TW into women-only spaces to their own ends. If you can't question a man in a dress, or even a man in a suit with a beard, when he enters a women's toilet, you're inviting trouble.