These women have no idea what feminism is really about, do they?

[Cerseirys]

I'm not sure why the Indy felt the need to go down this route for IWD. Some of these women sound like MRAs

www.independent.co.uk/voices/international-women-s-day-2016-we-spoke-to-the-women-who-won-t-be-celebrating-a6917506.html

Can I just check before I think about how I respond. DadWasHere and bumbledumb- do you both think that there is a completely level playing field for girls and boys/men and women in the law, education, employment and in society at large? There is no discrimination of any sort?

Also, DadWasHere- I wasn't mocking you. I was quoting you. Do you not stand by your view that there is no discrimination, only "aberrant events enacted by individuals?"

If differences in salary, educational attainment etc are explicable by discrimination, then it follows that young are being discriminated against right now, since they earn on average less than young women (up until 30's I think). However, I'm willing to bet that no one here would countenance that particular explanation.

*young men

Women between the ages of 22 and 29 earn very slightly more than men of the same age. This is the only age group where this applies.

it's over £1000. is this a tax on being a man ? Why is there a gap ? Does it not matter ?

£1000 a year is "slightly" more. No, I don't know why. Could be because more women go straight from university into jobs rather than further education or training so they earn more initially.

That's just a guess, by the way.

And I meant FE/HE when I said "university"

But it would explain why it's that specific age group.

so, not discrimination then ?

I don't know. Do you think it's discrimination? How would you target discrimination specifically on men between the ages of 22 and 29?

Presumably in the same way it's targeted at women above that age ? Also by focussing more effort on girls that boys academically etc.

Also by focussing more effort on girls that boys academically etc

Who does that? Where?

I'm sorry. I don't understand. Men on average earn more than women in every age group from statutory school leaving age to retirement except for one specific period of 8 years immediately post FE/HE and somehow this shows that men are discriminated against?

If a difference in wages is a result of discrimination, then women are discriminated against in every age group EXCEPT 22-30 where it's men who are discriminated against. Either a wage gap is caused by discrimination or it isn't. Or do you regard a gap at this age as an aberrant event, the result of individual actions etc ?

Itlallbefiine -you really are taking the piss aren't you? Why is that more fun/interesting than having a sensible, rational discussion about things?

But I amn't taking the piss, I do feel that there has been a drive to "help" women and girls to do well academically more than boys, to help them get into careers etc. You would say "oh but men don't need that help, because they are the default sex". Admittedly this is my perception, but then the existence of a patriarchy which values women less than men and explains "wage gaps" is equally your perception. Even though young women out perform men academically and out earn them, you don't seem to regard this as evidence of bias or discrimination, however as soon as the shoe appears to be on the other foot, it is bias and discrimination, i'm simply asking what the difference is, or whether it's only discrimination when women appear to get the worse deal ?

It's discrimination if it is discrimination, regardless of the people being discriminated against.

Now, can you think of a reason not involving targetted discrimination that women might very slightly outearn men between the ages of 22 and 29? Not before that, not after that- just for those 8 years?

"I do feel that there has been a drive to "help" women and girls to do well academically more than boys, to help them get into careers etc."

Can I have some example please?

It's discrimination if it is discrimination, regardless of the people being discriminated against.

To assert 'patriarchy' is to assert systemic/societal discrimination of one gender upon the other. If the person who victimised my wife in the workplace is a male it opens the door to personal discrimination, patriarchal discrimination, or a combination both. But the person who bullied my wife was a female supervisor. If a woman is discriminated/victimised in the workplace by a male its functionally impossible to shut the door of 'patriarchy' because gender will not allow it. It then follows people have to back up and ask if the man represents more societal wide thinking or is he just a bastard other men would look down on.

Can I have some example please?

Is their a push in the UK to get girls into STEM?

It is not discrimination to have schemes to encourage groups into areas where they are under represented. It would not be discriminatory, for example to have a programme to encourage men into midwifery, nursing or domestic cleaning. It is not discriminatory to have programmes, as our school does, to support boys literacy. It is not, by the same reasoning, discriminatory to have programmes to encourage girls into STEM.

And you misunderstand the concept of "the patriarchy" if you think it is about individuals or individual action. I will explain this if absolutely necessary, but I think you understand perfectly well, it just suits your agenda to appear not to.

And a workplace bully is a workplace bully, regardless of sex.

Oh fuck off driode.

You've been trolling the Feminism boards all evening and getting deleted all over.

Twat.

"I do feel that there has been a drive to "help" women and girls to do well academically more than boys, to help them get into careers etc."

Only came across this once in education, I think towards end of secondary we had a lady speaker from industry come to our school to which only girls were invited to attend. Which I get on the one hand, but following this assumption shouldn't future discriminators surely had something else as well?

This was it though i cant remember at A - levels if there was anything? this was also quite few years ago now and guess things have changed.