These women have no idea what feminism is really about, do they?

[Cerseirys]

I'm not sure why the Indy felt the need to go down this route for IWD. Some of these women sound like MRAs

www.independent.co.uk/voices/international-women-s-day-2016-we-spoke-to-the-women-who-won-t-be-celebrating-a6917506.html

Lass is correct, the issue is not whether it happens or not, the issue is whether the OP is happy with it or not, not everyone shares the assumption on here that looking after your kids is something the govt. should pay for while you go back to corporateville so you that can afford two foreign holidays a year and "keep your identity". Does the husband who has to go and work full time enjoy an advantage over his wife ? Is his life better or not ? The presumption is not just that an expectation exists, but that the women always gets the shitty end of the stick.

it seems to me extraordinary that Lass and Itall appear to be allies when they have such fundamentally different views. The only thing they seem to have in common is a dislike of feminists- even though one of them is a prime example of the "if it looks like a duck..." principle!

what views do lass and I have that are "fundamentally different" !?

She believes in the existence of the patriarchy. You don't.

OP. No the women in the article do not really know what feminism is.

Rape culture is more than just the statistics.

I'm a proud feminist

Bert you have asked women who don't identify as feminists why they don't identify as feminists. You have received many answers.

How come you still don't get it? Have you not read what they said?

Really?

Because I have read intelligent and erudite responses from women who have taken the time to answer that question. When you have asked it.

The responses have run into the 100s on a thread. 1000s if you add them all up. But still you don't know why?

How come? Are you not listening to them? Are you dismissing their answers?

She believes in the existence of the patriarchy. You don't

Do I ? I'm not sure I do. I definitely find "it's the patriarchy " as the explanation for everything far too glib.

It's International Women's Day, not International Feminism Day. Why shouldn't women use it as an occasion to critique feminism?

Frankly the patriarchy can sit back and fold its arms and do nothing given there are so many women telling their daughters life will be shit and it's all stacked against them."
But you don't believe in the patriarchy?

No. I don't- " the patriarchy" gets mentioned a lot on here as being to blame for everything , but not my me. I will rephrase what I said. Sorry , I was trying, and obviously failing, to be ironic.

Frankly "the patriarchy" (being the entity frequently referenced on here as being the cause of everything bad) , can sit back and fold its arms and do nothing given there are so many women telling their daughters life will be shit and it's all stacked against them."

The only viable solution to gender bias in advertising kids clothing:

imgur.com/ZUNQu74

What's baffling Slug? What would parents who believed in God tell their kids, even if no God actually existed? Nothing different. Parents who assume society is stacked against their daughters, because of patriarchy, proceed on their belief.

I suppose the point would be that certain things, even if dead or dying, are not allowed to be buried. They proceed zombie-like into multi-generational self fulfilling prophecies perpetuated by people stuck in a cult of infantilization or victim-hood, in order to avoid diminishing their own validity and questioning their belief systems. High priests arise to galvanise the masses and even if they don’t genuinely believe the message themselves, there is still money in delivering it. So people go on to extrapolate the perceived evils and unfairness they encounter in their lives and the lives of others as being created by inherent systemic cultural effects, directed by gender A at gender B, rather than aberrant events enacted by individuals counter to a wider societies wishes.

So are you imagining feminists sitting round telling their daughters not to bother to try because "the patriarchy" will stop them succeeding? Good lord, what a very strange idea!

"aberrant events enacted by individuals" This is my new favourite sentence. My dd texted me yesterday about the extraordinary preponderance of male writers, commentators, lecturers and tutors in her degree course, even in the course about the portrayal of women in scripture. I'll tell her it's just "aberrant events enacted by individuals" so she should stop the working group she's on preparing a list of alternatives to submit to the head of department. Because if this year's an anomaly, presumably next year it'll be mostly women.......

Don't worry, Michelle- it's just "aberrant events enacted by individuals". It'll be fine. No need to take any action.

So are you imagining feminists sitting round telling their daughters not to bother to try because "the patriarchy" will stop them succeeding? Good lord, what a very strange idea

That's not what I think he was saying; certainly not what I was saying. What I meant is the the sheer negativity of feminist discourse may well be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Who needs what feminists call later "the patriarchy " to discourage girls getting on in life/ living their lives as they want when so many grown-up women are telling them the odds are stacked against them?

Do you have daughters, Lass?

I do bert.

Bert, mockery is cheap and posting the words of someone famous does little but try to gain authority via association. There is also a dimension of irony of highlighting a woman raised to public prominence by virtue of her marriage to the President. If Trump is ultimately beaten (though, sadly, I doubt it) get back to me on what Hillary has to say when she is in office.

There are places in the world where a girl getting an education is regarded as a waste of time, and worse places where its seen as a direct challenge to an entrenched patriarchy that will get her beaten or killed outright. But this thread is not about those places. This is you, apparently, raising an issue that girls are not valued for their mind while living in a society which has more female doctors under 30 than men, a society where research says girls perform better academically than boys. You talk about your daughter doing her degree surrounded by men. This is currently the same position as my own daughter in her STEM field degree. But is the fact women are not well represented in STEM incumbent on patriarchy or is it the choices of young women made in high school not to enter STEM fields?

Yes and a society where naked images of young men are all around us and used to sell everything. Where young men wear high heels that damage their feet and have false nails and hair in order to look acceptable. Where you can see the older unattractive female news readers who keep their jobs, where the younger male newsreaders are wondering how long they'll have left once their looks go. Where the vast majority of CEOs are female.
Women in our society are definitely valued for their minds DadWasHere. You're right, thankfully

where the younger male newsreaders

Which younger male newsreaders? How do the young get a chance if the older newsreaders remain incumbent in their jobs?

Where the vast majority of CEOs are female.

Even if the vast majority of CEOs were women, the vast majority of women and men would not be CEOs. Changing the gender of CEOs will not ease the oppression of women in this society.

Women in our society are definitely valued for their minds

I am willing to bet that David Beckham, Wayne Rooney and Lewis Hamilton earn a lot more than say, Brian Cox. I wouldn't be surprised to discover that Joe Swash earns more than him.