porn found

[madwomanacrosstheroad]

My husband's phone is linked to my Dropbox as he had photos of the kids on his phone and we wanted them all on one place. I was looking for something and discovered several porn pictures uploaded onto dropbox.
Asked my husband about this and he stated he was "just messing around". The stuff was "soft porn", the type of stuff I found under my eldest child's bed when he was a young teen.
I am horrified and shocked. My issue is not that he was looking at other women or naked bodies.
It is the exploitative nature of the porno industry, the objectification of women and children. What does that say about our sexual relationship? What does it say about his view of women?
We have been together for a long time. He is quite articulate about politics, the nature of exploitative relationships etc.

"Yes, and it's possible to only eat responsibly sourced food. But it's not as fun, is it?"

Why not?

Why not?

people don't do it, do they?

what if the material was ethically sourced? I'd argue it's better than an ipad, or slave labour chocolate.

Takes 2 minutes to find ethically sourced goods, anyone who knows what goes on and doesn't do what they can to end it probably isn't much of a human being.

Random people not being aware of or not being interested in the shitty conditions that their knickers are made in isn't the same thing as actively seeking out something that they have previously agreed is harmful.

Random people not being aware of or not being interested in the shitty conditions that their knickers are made in isn't the same thing as actively seeking out something that they have previously agreed is harmful.

we all need knickers. no one needs an ipad, and I am sure people have heard about the problems with apple's supply chain (in countries with much weaker labour laws than ours).

Classic whataboutery. Deeply tedious.

Chilli, really, try harder.

By your argument, no one needs to look at porn, so they shouldn't. Did you mean to change tack and agree with me? Or were you trying to be condescending and failing badly?

And no, no one needs sweatshop produced knickers. If you're more worried about a smaller proportion of people who own Apple products than the huge number of people who by slave made clothing, then you're really reaching there.

Ethical pants!

www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bf358e0e-1f36-11e5-ab0f-6bb9974f25d0.html#axzz42DuUPe89

It takes two minutes, but it's two minutes people don't take.

Women are killing themselves because of conditions in the Apple factories. Of course that is relevant to this discussion. Are none of us using iPhones?

Why not start a thread about Apple's iniquitous practices.

This one's about porn.

When it comes to pornography, once the issues have been pointed out to you, none of the other three apply, do they?

Bertrand several posters have pointed out that all porn does not fit into the your definition, you have not responded to that, do you think it isn't the case ? The trouble is that you don't address the initial points, when someone tries again using an analogy you shut them down as "off topic".

Unless they were photographs that he took himself of people that he knows personally, then he has no idea of the circumstances in which they were taken.

And engaging with porn at all perpetuates an industry where women undeniably exploited. Even if the particular one in a individual picture wasn't.

And I don't "shut people down" for using an analogy. I just point out that just because something else is exploitative too that does not mean the topic under discussion should be excused. It's a common debating trick, colloquially called "whataboutery" and it's very tedious.

A whole load of porn is made by couples, or young men and women, on their own and for no money, as I say reddit is full of this stuff. I think it's a bit much to say that viewing this is perpetuating the rape (either real or simulated) of women in the violent and misogynistic porn that certainly does exist elsewhere. It's not even part of an industry but I think still qualifies as porn. It comes across as a bit "one puff of hash and you'll be shooting up heroin"

You have no idea of the provenance of any porn unless you have actually been involved in the making of it yourself.

Personally I would rather my children grew up in a world where it was not automatically assumed that all men watch porn (they don't, by the way) and where young people's perception of sex was not informed by a pornographic sensibility. But each to their own.

Poor analogy.

No one shoots heroin thinking they are smoking hash.

Some "amateur consenting" porn is no such thing - people can be filmed without their knowledge, people can be pressured into it by partners, and actors can be used to make "couple" porn.

I quite like what Germaine Greer said on the subject in this debate:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0hvr8GPV_I

There is something desperately wrong with human sexuality. Which I think is reflected in the pornography we consume. I wouldn't go so far as to say it is inherently a moral wrong, but it is such a foundational part of human interaction that permeates our entire culture, so perhaps it's a moot point.

i think analogies can be really useful, but it is really interesting that whilst we would probably all agree that slave labour is completely and utterly wrong, harmful and a massive problem worldwide, even those that would try really hard not to buy it, would not be devastated and reconsidering their personal loving relationships if they found out their loved one was secretly coveting an Ipad, or drinking Nescafé.
The issues are not that slavery is less bad in those, but more likely that having an ipad doesnt make one feel that their partner is cheating on them in their head. Makes it a double whammy of bad I guess, but dont try and pretend its all to do with womens rights, or that you ever really give a shit about your partner if you would seriously consider leaving over a nude picture.
I get that this is te WR board, but its still a personal relationship and we really do have to make allowances for peoples flaws and try and put them in perspective of what the relationship is actually worth to you

"dont try and pretend its all to do with womens rights, or that you ever really give a shit about your partner if you would seriously consider leaving over a nude picture."
Surely you would consider leaving someone if they turned out to be completely different to the person you thought they were? If I discovered that my partner was getting his rocks off over a picture of a woman who might be trafficked, vulnerable and exploited then yes, he would no longer be the person I thought he was. The difference from the IPad/Nutella situation I think is that you are actually looking at the face/boobs/vulva/arse of a real woman. The others are at a remove. Wrong, obviously, but not so immediate. Full disclosure- we have Apple products but are very careful about clothes, food and so on. We would like to be strong enough to reject Apple too- but haven't managed it yet. We also like, on occasion to play with erotic fiction but we do not use porn with real people in it.

Thanks for that link Dervel. Excellent points. The convenience food of sex, yes!

It's pretty hypocritical to be typing this up on your Apple products while declaring yourself a champion of women who lives according to a superior moral code.

You know it's wrong, but it's ok because you haven't seen anyone's arse? Hardly.

its not as if its hard to reject Apple products. Noone needs them or is entitled to them. Its a specific choice youve made that says you dont care about slavery, in fact you actively choose to support it no?

Barefoot

So you think that the various reddit forums that host user submitted porn are actually just as likely to be full of actors and women who are being pressured into it ? And that the users of those forums have basically no chance of discerning ?

The analogy is that all porn is not the same, and treating all of it as being as bad as the worst kind is counter productive and hyperbolic.

So it's all or nothing? Boycott everything bad or shut up?

"treating all of it as being as bad as the worst kind"

Nope, I never said this. More misrepresentation.

No idea if it's "just as likely" - again, never said it.

Do I think the majority of porn viewers who make some kind of option for "home made" porn can discern actors? No, that's why they are called "actors" - they can portray things.

And how many care that much?

Why not start a thread about Apple's iniquitous practices.

You called apple's introduction into this topic whataboutery. But that's not the point.

We (at least I) didn't introduce apple/chocolate to point out there are other injustices in the world. Of course there are. And I am not making the silly assertion that if you can't solve all of the worlds problems, or contribute to a solution, you shouldn't try helping to solve any of them.

My point was to challenge this "line in the sand" that porn is seen as in many threads on MN. I have heard the term deal breaker a lot in relation to porn and it really make me squint my eyes. over porn? really? a happy marriage of 15 years? And I see people giving LTB advice over what I think is a rather small thing (I understand what I think is trivial may not be trivial to you. see below). My point about bringing up ipads and chocolate is that they are arguably as bad, or possibly worse than porn (we would have to qualify that of course. across the whole industries? Specific instances? are there better alternatives?), but if I came on MN asking if it's a good idea to leave my partner over chocolate or an ipad, I think I might get laughed at. incidentally, for DP chocolate is an issue (one reason I brought it up), and I do my best to comply, but it isn't a deal breaker (obviously).

I am not saying that relationships shouldn't have their peculiar standards or that people shouldn't have deal breakers. different people are different, as are relationships. but judging by the number of people who claim it's a deal breaker and the estimates on the porn usage is among men, somebody is being lied to somewhere.

@branleuse. just read your post. totally agree.

he would no longer be the person I thought he was

I noticed you backed off from "completely different" to what you thought.