porn found

[madwomanacrosstheroad]

My husband's phone is linked to my Dropbox as he had photos of the kids on his phone and we wanted them all on one place. I was looking for something and discovered several porn pictures uploaded onto dropbox.
Asked my husband about this and he stated he was "just messing around". The stuff was "soft porn", the type of stuff I found under my eldest child's bed when he was a young teen.
I am horrified and shocked. My issue is not that he was looking at other women or naked bodies.
It is the exploitative nature of the porno industry, the objectification of women and children. What does that say about our sexual relationship? What does it say about his view of women?
We have been together for a long time. He is quite articulate about politics, the nature of exploitative relationships etc.

[BertrandRussell]

No one who does things which are actively damaging to women can be a feminist.

Mainstream porn is actively damaging to women. which is why there is discussion among some feminists about the feasibility of ethical porn.

Draw your own conclusions.

[itllallbefine]

My conclusion is that there is no definition of a Feminist.

[Bumbledumb]

Okay, why this fascination with defining precisely where the boundary between porn and non-porn is?

The OP described the material she found as "soft porn". Moving the discussion on to hard-core porn is a derail.

Of course, the short answer here is the viewer, the partner, considers it to be porn since it acts as porn for them. That is after all why they are viewing it. What the man on the Clapham omnibus thinks of the matter is irrelevant

It seems to me that the viewer is the OP and she is projecting her opinion on the material on her DH. She says that her objection is to the exploitation of women and children, as if her DH were somehow culpable of this.

[BertrandRussell]

It's only non feminists who want there to be one.

[BertrandRussell]

"She says that her objection is to the exploitation of women and children, as if her DH were somehow culpable of this."

If it is mainstream porn he is certainly culpable in the exploitation of women.

[harrasseddotcom]

Giving up mobile phones is hard. Probably impossible for most people. Giving up porn? Not so much. So why wouldn't you? Giving up mobile phones is no harder than giving up porn. Really, all you have to do is switch it off and put it in the bin. There are other modes of communication, which until the last 20 years, served us all fine. The problem is you dont want to. You derive pleasure from it because it benefits your life. Same with porn. Its just that men tend to benefit from it more than women typically.

[harrasseddotcom]

To the op, if porn is really a hard line for you then leave your dp. But realise that your dp is no more a bastard for viewing porn than you are for not wearing ethical pants/using apple products/eating nutella. Im quite happy to accept that the majority of UK people, when it comes down to the nitty gritty, dont care enough about the plight of women whether it be the porn industry or sweatshops. We live our lives in a cosy bubble surrounded by nice things at the expense of others. One is no better than the other imo.

[BertrandRussell]

Hey, harassed- how about reading the thread first?

[harrasseddotcom]

Bert I have read the thread. And responded to the points that stood out to me.

[SomeDyke]

"she is projecting her opinion on the material on her DH"

Porn/erotica/erotic literature/erotic drawings is an attempted derail. So is the classification soft porn/hard porn/medium porn, grande, vente, whatever. It's all porn (or all coffee!)

What you are trying to obscure here is the poster had a perfectly valid opinion about the material her DH was viewing. What her DH thought of it was irrelevant really, it is her opinion of the material and how that makes her feel about her relationship that matters. Obviously he doesn't feel the same or he wouldn't have been viewing it!

So, the classic, 'projecting' her opinion, it's just another example akin to the usual women get offended (their opinion), men can't see what all the fuss is about (it was just banter, a joke, not serious as their opinion). And as here, by insisting on the validity of their opinion, the women get accused of 'projecting' their opinion onto the poor men..............

the objectification of women - there's the key phrase.

[harrasseddotcom]

Surely the point is that it is a sliding scale, and not everyone can even agree with the that. You say objectification of women, how many people boycott all movies/tv shows that objectify women. Id say not very many. Most tv/cinema has some sort of sexualisation of women. Is it ok if you just watch a bit of it? how much is too much? who decides that? the law? a single feminist? A large group of women? So all you can do is see where you sit on the your scale and consider how far you are willing to bend to carry on relations with those around you (who in most likelihood not living in exact accordance with yourself).

[chilipepper20]

So, the classic, 'projecting' her opinion, it's just another example akin to the usual women get offended (their opinion), men can't see what all the fuss is about (it was just banter, a joke, not serious as their opinion). And as here, by insisting on the validity of their opinion, the women get accused of 'projecting' their opinion onto the poor men..............

there is a key difference though between the scenarios you mention, and the OP's. You are right, it is infuriating and dismissive when awful comments get labelled simple banter. But that is because such scenarios necessarily involve all people. But in this case, the OP's DP was doing something in private. His intention was to hide it from the OP so it wouldn't affect her. Given that doesn't his opinion of the activity matter a lot?

[SomeDyke]

"But in this case, the OP's DP was doing something in private. His intention was to hide it from the OP..."

But then that is just a whole other issue, if your partner is doing something in secret and hiding it from you because they suspected if you knew you wouldn't be very happy about it! As opposed, say, to being certain bodily functions that many of us consider rightly to be private (I'm having a dump dear, no need for you to watch!), which is different from secret (if you hide from your partner the fact that you do defecate, then you're just weird, whether it is in the woods or otherwise!).

The facts here are very simple -- he had porn, she isn't happy about it, and that is absolutely totally valid for her. Others are not required to agree to make her judgement and concerns valid.

[harrasseddotcom]

What is the op asking then? Is it ok for her not to like porn? fine, whatever floats your boat. She doesn't like her husband using porn? Well, I guess thats fine as well, all feelings being valid and all. She doesn't have to like her husband viewing porn. Is that really the all the jist of the op? She doesnt like porn and she doesn't like the fact that he dp obviously does. Well glad thats cleared up, home time everyone.

[chilipepper20]

But then that is just a whole other issue, if your partner is doing something in secret and hiding it from you because they suspected if you knew you wouldn't be very happy about it!

That works both ways though, doesn't it? It's an expression that he thinks he should be able to view and is not "allowed" to. This is not particular to porn, and the victim is often the hider and the woman (not claiming her DP is a victim here). Woman often hide things from overbearing and controlling male partners, and they are often right in doing so.

But I am surprised to hear her opinion is automatically counted as "valid". Is that always the case? If one partner wants to control the other partner's private behaviour, is the other's partner's opinion always valid? Surely, some people can ask for unreasonable things from their partner, especially pertaining to activities that don't directly affect the person.

[SomeDyke]

"But I am surprised to hear her opinion is automatically counted as "valid"."

Why? Not used to listening to women?

She doesn't like it that he views porn. That is totally valid, how could it be otherwise? She legitimately feels as she feels about that.

Telling women they are wrong for feeling a certain way is something that chaps seem to like doing quite a bit...............

"the other partner's private behaviour" It's not private if it's on a shared Dropbox folder..........

This is getting tedious, when the end result of what you are saying is that chaps should be able to stick a privacy notice on the door of the den, and wank off to whatever they like. Fine, if you want to do that, stay single. Simples!

[chilipepper20]

She doesn't like it that he views porn. That is totally valid, how could it be otherwise? She legitimately feels as she feels about that.

of course her feelings are totally valid, nobody disputes that. We can like and dislike whatever we want. that's not the dispute.

What may not be valid is requesting someone else should have to give up something based on that dislike. that's the issue.

It's not private if it's on a shared Dropbox folder....

clearly an accident.

This is getting tedious

no doubt.

when the end result of what you are saying is that chaps should be able to stick a privacy notice on the door of the den, and wank off to whatever they like.

no, not just chaps. anyone.

Fine, if you want to do that, stay single. Simples!

indeed! it sounds like both parties may be better off despite possibly having children and an otherwise excellent marriage.

[CaptainSnootyofthePoshBrigade]

I agree that attempting to control the private behaviour of another individual, irrespective of your marital ties, is beyond the pale. Anyone should be able to have a wank in private, to whatever legally acceptable material they personally see fit.

Of course the OP is entitled to dislike it. But it's not OK to rule over another person. If that means that someone continues to use their ipad or eats chocolate spread or looks at pictures of tits that may (or may not) be taken of someone who isn't as happy as they might otherwise be, then so be it.

[harrasseddotcom]

I agree that attempting to control the private behaviour of another individual, irrespective of your marital ties, is beyond the pale. This is the crux of this matter really isnt it?

[chilipepper20]

that may (or may not) be taken of someone who isn't as happy as they might otherwise be

while it may not seem so, I take seriously the criticism that it's a rotten industry. It ruins many lives. it makes tobacco industry look good. so it's a serious problem that some people may not be giving full consent to having their pictures posted.

But I think it is a lot about control, and how we are still a bit messed up about things sexual.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

No one who does things which are actively damaging to women can be a feminist

I read plenty of posts from women on MN and even on FWR and in other sources which support the "sex-industry" and women's rights to work in it; or who are opposed to abortion.

By your definition presumably they are not feminists?

[BertrandRussell]

Anyone who is opposed to abortion for other people cannot, in my view, be a feminist.

[CaptainSnootyofthePoshBrigade]

'Anyone who is opposed to abortion for other people cannot, in my view, be a feminist.'

I agree wholeheartedly with that! But that's a whole other thread.

[Vivacion]

I have the same problem with my husband. Two to three times a week I walk into the bedroom only to find him wanking off to some demeaning video of a poor girl with extreme extremities in areas they should never go. I have tried everything to get this vile habit to end, I even offered to make my own porn that he could watch instead, but lo and behold I still witness this horror. It fills me with dread, I can tell you...

[SomeDyke]

"I don't think feminists agree about everything, it's very clear that they actually agree about fairly little."

No, actually feminists agree that something needs to be done about the status of females as opposed to males. It's just the what and where and which that is the issue. And is very different to thinking that everything is hunky-dory as it is, or that women need to stop working and concentrate on having as many babies as possible, and obeying their husbands.........

So that is after all quite a big thing that feminists agree on! And contentious, and something that the majority(?) of the human race seem to have disagreed with for a substantial part of human history.............