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Original poster

General Trans thread part 2

999 replies

ChiefClerkDrumknott · 07/01/2016 08:29

Following on from this one General Trans thread
Because I'm not Elsa and can't let it go Wink

Even a quick read of this thread suggest there is a lot of anger. ..
Some examples...

You don't need examples. I told you that we are angry

This "debate" between radical feminism and the trans community is being seen by mainstream as a particularly nasty fight with some issues, risks and fears (on both sides) being deliberately exaggerated.

And who do you think started the fight? I think you'll find some rad fem fears stem from being threatened with death and rape when they bring up objections to some of these 'issues' you glibly dismiss. Do you not think that's an understandable reaction? By the way, have you popped over to Twitter or Tumblr yet to plead with 'TERF' killers to be less aggressive?

As mentioned earlier, I may be completely wrong. Perhaps the best solution is to get even angrier, even more offensive and aggressive...

You know what, as I said we are angry and we are 'aggressive', if you term defending women's rights vocally and loudly and consistently aggressive Hmm

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
JaWellNoFine · 03/02/2016 19:15

Thank you for posting the link to transgender trend website. I will write to my MP.

FeliciaJollygoodfellow · 05/02/2016 22:16

I posted this on the IOC thread earlier on today, meant it to go here:

From www.advocate.com/arts-entertainment/books/2012/08/16/mother-transgender-toddler-gets-lesson-love which was linked from 'The Emperer's Penis' article above.

*"So, I started letting Izzy be a boy at home, wearing what- ever clothes he wanted, and playing with whatever toys he chose. Most of these things had previously been removed from our home after some really bad advice from ill-informed “experts.” We had been trying for a while to have everything be “female” around the house, and we even created a special “girls’ club.” I think Izzy would have loved to have been a girl just so this terrible nightmare would end. In fact, he really tried to act like a girl for a while to appease us, yet would always say things like, “See I could make a cute girl if I wanted to, but I’m really a boy.” It took a while for us to really get that message.

One day my husband, Izzy’s stepdad Buzz, was having a hard time getting Izzy ready for school. He decided to just let Izzy wear the boys’ shirt with the car on it that day. His message on my phone went something like, “Honey don’t be mad, I know we said not to let Izzy wear boys’ clothes out of the house, but I had to get the kid to school.” Later there was another message: “You’re not going to believe this, but Izzy is playing with other kids! It’s amazing. I can’t believe it.” Izzy never played with other kids; he never had friends. Not a girl and not a “real” boy, Izzy never fit in and usually felt isolated and depressed. It seemed as though this were about to change."*

I am speechless. The father (ex-husband) wasn't supportive so this mother, hell-bent on pigeon-holing her child into pink=girl, blue=boy is actively encouraging this stereotyping?!

I just can't express how sick that article makes me feel.

FeliciaJollygoodfellow · 05/02/2016 22:19

I also can't express how angry it makes me that people just don't seem to care! I don't think I know anyone who would stand up and say they are a feminist, let alone champion women's rights.

It's all 'I'm not a feminist, I want equality for all' or 'I'm not a feminist, I'm happy being a SAHM' or 'I'm not a feminist because I'm not oppressed'.

Like Felicity I feel like I'm slowly being erased. I come back to these threads thinking I've left it long enough, it'll be fine - and then all over again I get the rage.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 05/02/2016 23:12

What Lass and other proponents
Proponents of what exactly? And what other "proponents am I supposed to be allied with?

I wasn't "promoting" anything one way or another other than explaining how maternity protection and sex discrimination works under UK law.

(Thanks almond and DrSuess)

PosieReturningParker · 06/02/2016 08:54

I can't get my head round that article.

Biological male child being forced to choose a gender stereotype?

EmpressOfTheVulvaCupcakes · 06/02/2016 09:03

Biological female child being told she can only do the stuff she likes if she's a boy.

And the comments all think it's wonderful.

CoteDAzur · 06/02/2016 09:53

Lass - Why did you cut out the rest of that sentence? While you are reading that post, you might even want to answer it.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 06/02/2016 09:59

No Cote I'm not going to answer it. I don't know what you think I'm a proponent of or whom I'm allied to.

I was making factual statements about the application of UK law. Despite several other posters agreeing I was correct you continued to say I was wrong and have now put some spin of your own on it.

I have no interest in discussing this, nor for that matter, anything much, with you.

CoteDAzur · 06/02/2016 10:05

You don't want to answer a post but want to pick a couple of words out of it to bicker with.

That is not a level of "debate" I'm interested in.

CoteDAzur · 06/02/2016 10:06

If you are not interested in discussing anything with me, I suggest you don't quote my posts in the future.

WilLiAmHerschel · 06/02/2016 12:31

FeliciaJollygoodfellow that link makes me angry. I cannot understand why people believe so deeply in girl's toys and clothes and boy's toys and clothes. To the extent they'd rather tell a child it's body is wrong. And that all the experts they went to and all the people around them - none of them thought to say, "Let your daughter wear jeans and t-shirts and play with cars, it doesn't mean anything. It's just what she likes. Not all girls are the same. They're only toys and clothes."

I mentioned in another thread that a friend of mine said recently, one thing putting her off having another child is that if it was a girl she'd need to buy a whole new load of toys. Because obviously a girl won't or can't play with the same toys her brothers did. Hmm I despair.

FeliciaJollygoodfellow · 06/02/2016 14:33

It truly beggars belief doesn't it?

I have three boys. One of them has consistently said his favourite colour is pink. They've all had long hair at various times. Littlest has a baby doll and they had a toy buggy when they were little.

I used to think it was a bit irritating when you read threads on here like 'AIBU to let Tarquin wear an Elsa dress and crown when out of the house?' - because it often seemed like it was showing off about what a 'right on' parent the OP was.

But if the alternative is 'AIBU to call Tarquin Tara as he's clearly a girl because he likes wearing an Elsa dress and crown' I know which one I'd choose.

VertigoNun · 06/02/2016 18:42

It's not on to refuse meds. Why do they believe that there is a problem with meds? Why no GRS cert?

TheXxed · 06/02/2016 19:34

I think there is a move against GRS certs and move toward self declaration.

HamaTime · 06/02/2016 19:44

There is a comment under that petition saying 'One day we will look back at this with as much revulsion as imprisoning people because they are gay' Confused

TheXxed · 06/02/2016 20:28

To be clear that person wasn't imprisoned because they are trans but they are demanding to go in a women's prison.Hmm

WilLiAmHerschel · 07/02/2016 11:04

genderbitch.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/sexuality-binarism-cissexism/

Julie Bindel shared this on twitter today.

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 07/02/2016 13:18

Wow. That article. Speechless

PosieReturningParker · 07/02/2016 13:33

I got too "WTF?" to read it all.

WilLiAmHerschel · 07/02/2016 14:06

Yeah I couldn't read it all.

msrisotto · 07/02/2016 14:39

It was nonsense. I didn't waste my time reading too much.

Dinglethdragon · 08/02/2016 09:54

I read enough to spot that as a gay or lesbian person I am not supposed to say that I am attracted to men or women, I cannot reject anyone on the basis that they are not a man or a woman, I can only reject individuals on the grounds that they do not meet my sexual needs. Of course I may have misread it - writing clearly does not seem to be one of this person's gifts.

On the plus side, if TRans Activists are now telling gay men how they can talk about their sexuality then things might get interesting. My dbro is gay and is shocked and clearly disappointed in me for my new trans critical stance. He doesn't see the problem. Yet.