General Trans thread part 2

[ChiefClerkDrumknott]

Following on from this one General Trans thread
Because I'm not Elsa and can't let it go

Even a quick read of this thread suggest there is a lot of anger. ..
Some examples...

You don't need examples. I told you that we are angry

This "debate" between radical feminism and the trans community is being seen by mainstream as a particularly nasty fight with some issues, risks and fears (on both sides) being deliberately exaggerated.

And who do you think started the fight? I think you'll find some rad fem fears stem from being threatened with death and rape when they bring up objections to some of these 'issues' you glibly dismiss. Do you not think that's an understandable reaction? By the way, have you popped over to Twitter or Tumblr yet to plead with 'TERF' killers to be less aggressive?

As mentioned earlier, I may be completely wrong. Perhaps the best solution is to get even angrier, even more offensive and aggressive...

You know what, as I said we are angry and we are 'aggressive', if you term defending women's rights vocally and loudly and consistently aggressive

Explain to him that if he says he only fancies men he's transphobic. And that if he only likes cock he has to include pre-op transwomen. Or still transphobic.

Do an Owen Jones and ask him how he fancies performing cunnilingus on a trans man's vagina.

And then get ready for the shit storm.

Because gay men want none of the erasure that they're more than happy to see women suffer.

Funny that

On the leftie women's page one poster said she didn't mind what genitals anyone had... And that people who did were odd.

Weirdly I could tell she was a complete cock.

The "Drop the T" petition was started by a gay man I believe. One of the issues they had was homophobia, so there are some gay men who feel the same. For anyone who doesn't know, the petition was calling for the T to be removed from LGBT. Several big organisations wrote how unreasonable the petition was and that they would not be giving it any consideration. I assume it was unsuccessful as I've not heard any more about it lately.

I find it really strange how some of the active pro-trans people just don't listen to any criticism. You can put together a really well thought, measured and sensitive argument against, say, opening women's spaces to anyone who declares themself a woman. It's like the people you're talking to stick their fingers in their ears and say "na na na" until you finish, then call you a disgusting transphobic bigot. And they do this even if you are a trans woman. It's bizarre. When equal marriage was being debated, I disagreed with those against it and I knew I wouldn't change my mind, but I still listened to what they had to say.

I've tried all arguments, believe me. He just doesn't see that there is a real problem - sure a few bonkers Trans activists are arguing that it's transphobic for a lesbian not to consider sex with a MTT but most people wouldn't .... He's not hit his peak trans moment because the FTT community are not at all like the MTT gang.

Have you explained about the erasure of boys who may grow up to be gay?

I was trying to find a (huffpost perhaps) piece I've read about how gay men won't go out with transmen. I couldn't find it but I did find this. Some of the comments are interesting.

Also found this but I've not had a chance to read it yet.

I had a disturbing conversation with a woman who transitioned then detransitioned. She said she encountered a number of gay men who wanted to have sex with MTTs as they look like young men. She said it was very one way sex. Think Owen Jones "eww vagina".

Flora is that because taking oestrogen makes the penis shrink and look more pre pubescent? If so that's gross

I messed that up. I meant FTTs not MTTs.

This is very relevant:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-35532491

Child gender identity referrals up by 930% in six years.

FeliciaJollygoodfellowThat article is seriously depressing. It makes me angry, sad and frustrated that a girl can only wear a top with a car on it if she identifies as a boy. FFS! When will people wake up and see that this strict gendering of everything is so very, very harmful. And now they're using puberty blockers, without any idea of what the long term effects will be.

This made me :
I then went to an endocrinologist, who drew some blood from Izzy for lab work. When discussing the results, we found that my child had been making both sets of hormones, estrogen and testosterone, in equal parts. We learned that in a child so young, however, hormones can ebb and flow, and that this was not conclusive to anything. So what could we think? The endocrinologist said our child was transgender, but that we should not let a lab test alter our path. In short, we should continue to do what is right for Izzy.
So they took their little girl to a lab, were told that the hormones were normal for a child, yet still ignored what they were told?

This made me scoff:
I think parents of trans kids are the best parents ever. They unconditionally love their children, even when they don’t completely understand what their child is going through.
Because of course, all other parents are just shite with their normal, baseline, cis kids, never any problems for them ever! I really do think some of these parents have taken their children's perfectly normal exploration of themselves and turned it in to a show of how wonderful and open-minded they are as parents. Which IMO reflects the Lib Fem stance of 'Oh look how open minded we are, we are so accepting of everyone and we're all equal, weeeee! No problems could come form this and anyone who says there could be issues are bigots!'

Wow Hovis, I knew the figures had increased but that seems quite a jump.

I very much suspect it has only just begun and is going to get a lot worse before someone says hang on a minute. It's obvious that if you tell kids this stuff they will believe you. And if you train well meaning and decent (not to say risk averse) teachers and GPs to take reports of discomfort with gender seriously, there will be many referrals. That's not to even mention the parents who really wanted a girl and see a way they can still have one (cf that recent very disturbing Mumsnet thread).

More nonsense on the Guardian - note very aggressive pro-trans poster "Bob Brown" who only registered today but managed to hijack the entire thread

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/19/transgender-restroom-use-americas-next-battle-for-equality-and-recognition#comment-69002133

There is a thread on reddit about how any comments that are critical of the bathroom rules are being deleted from that guardian article shins

Yes I had two deleted and one left in. The deleted comments were perfectly respectful and reasonable but I've been on pre-mod ever since their Cologne coverage so am used to getting zapped for thoughtcrime. Depressing. I notice the comments closed very quickly too. That Bob is a right unpleasant prick isn't he?

I'm shaking my head at the comment saying there are far more cis female sexual predators than trans ones. Yes clearly prisons are full of female rapists ffs

Or the blithe disregard for why a woman might feel intimidated by some big bloke wandering into her changing room/loo. It's EXACTLY the same as men who have to endure a female cleaner mopping round them while they pee.

A couple of trendy restaurants/clubs in town have communal toilets and I hate them. Not because I'm anything-phobic or believe that women should be segregated from men, but there are some spaces where women are vulnerable and want privacy - removing clothing, dealing with period stuff, maybe throwing up because they're 8 weeks pregnant. And when I see the lack of respect shown by transactivists for this, and the fact that generally women are attacked by men, not the other way round - I just can't have any respect for them either.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/21/public-toilets-battleground-for-bigots-legislate-trans-people-out-of-existence-south-dakota

two articles in two days..bizarre.

This event is coming up. I'm not able to go, but Mumsnetters with concerns should consider going and asking relevant questions www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/trans-in-the-criminal-justice-system-tickets-21669894237

Is it more acceptable to be a transwomen than camp male?

How do drag acts feel about trans?

Women's officer my arse

This same conference is meeting and part of their agenda is to no platform Julie Bindel