General Trans thread part 2

[ChiefClerkDrumknott]

Following on from this one General Trans thread
Because I'm not Elsa and can't let it go

Even a quick read of this thread suggest there is a lot of anger. ..
Some examples...

You don't need examples. I told you that we are angry

This "debate" between radical feminism and the trans community is being seen by mainstream as a particularly nasty fight with some issues, risks and fears (on both sides) being deliberately exaggerated.

And who do you think started the fight? I think you'll find some rad fem fears stem from being threatened with death and rape when they bring up objections to some of these 'issues' you glibly dismiss. Do you not think that's an understandable reaction? By the way, have you popped over to Twitter or Tumblr yet to plead with 'TERF' killers to be less aggressive?

As mentioned earlier, I may be completely wrong. Perhaps the best solution is to get even angrier, even more offensive and aggressive...

You know what, as I said we are angry and we are 'aggressive', if you term defending women's rights vocally and loudly and consistently aggressive

Go Hadley! Thank fuck someone at the Guardian has a brain.

metro.co.uk/2016/01/28/this-woman-says-shes-a-cat-not-a-human-5648627/?utm_content=bufferef609&utm_medium=Social+-+Facebook&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=Facebook

Trans cat

I wonder what owen jones makes of it... im sure i could guess...

I sympathise with identifying as a transact - my cats sleep most of the day, occasionally waking up to eat or groom themselves and sometimes enjoy chasing my knitting. Nobody tells them off for resting cat face and everyone accepts their demands for attention only at the times they expressly want it. It looks rather enjoyable.

I wonder what owen jones makes of it

Poor old Owen. He wants to be your friend but you're a crazy feminazi. More in sorrow than anger, some of his best friends are proper feminists.

I'm so glad I came to this thread! I recently tried to engage with someone from the trans community and however hard I tried, they kept shutting me down. They had no empathy at all for anyone who has concerns re anything other than accepting the centralisation of trans women's issues. I'm so happy to read the voices here, particularly ?Ripples?? was it? Sorry, a few pages ago now. And the links to voices like Miranda Yardley have been amazing. Thank you for this.

Resisting an oppressed group is an upsetting position to be in - but reading this thread made me see the person I was dealing with was carrying a shit load of male expectation into the dialogue and didn't give a shit about ...errr...giving a shit about anyone other than herself.

Really so happy to read you all.

I feel very torn on this issue on the one hand I feel empathy for those that have found themselves in what must be such a difficult situation, the pain and anguish of being forced to live a life that you feel is wrong for you...on the other hand I feel that they are a minority of people and there is a larger section of the 'trans' people that aren't like that at all and just want to escape from something they may have done before hand..it's a tricky one. I do think it's progress that we move on from this dated man/woman dichotomy though it's never helped anybody really seems to me

I do think it's progress that we move on from this dated man/woman dichotomy though it's never helped anybody really seems to me

I don't agree that we are moving on at all. I think this is reinforcing gender roles even more. It's not "progress". I don't see that feeling empathy and not discriminating against trans people means that they should be pandered to without question in everything and women should just be thrown under the bus because our feelings don't count. If it's all about feelings, surely ours should matter too!

Claudia

1. nobody here is lacking in empathy towards people who are struggling with their identity and definitely not against people who are sex dysphoric.
2. are we moving on from male/female sex division or man/woman "gender" division, i cant interpret which you mean from your post

the pain and anguish of being forced to live a life that you feel is wrong for you

Me. Every time I read a book, turn on the TV, do a school run, live my life; I am confronted by the reality that women are considered and treated as the inferior half of society, the weaker, less worthy, easily abusable, unimportant, less powerful, poorer, sillier, disposable half of society.
And I'm NOT. No woman is. I look at these men who are running the media, the government, the corporations, the hospitals, academia and the world and I want to scream at them that I am their equal, not their subordinate. That when they were snotty boys, we were the girls who were frequently cleverer and more capable and the only reason they are in these privileged positions of power now isn't because they somehow overtook the girls in brilliance, it's because the other, older boys already in the treehouse threw the rope ladder down for them to climb up but took it away when the girls' turn came. And that is how it will always be, boys letting the rope ladder down for other boys and keeping it out of reach for the girls and telling the world they belong up there and we just can't make it.

How the hell did I end up here? How did we all end up here? I did not see this coming when I was a girl, when all the boys knew I was their equal. This is not how I expected life to work out.

So yeah, I get how I'm being forced to live a life that I feel is wrong for me. And I can't fucking identify my way out of it into a better life because despite what the world is pretending right now, we all know the truth is that I'm in the shit half of society because of my biology, and nothing I change about my identity will convince anyone otherwise.

And the trans-activists who are busy changing their identities and getting to rewrite the script of MY LIFE are so successful in doing this purely because we ALL KNOW, even if we swear otherwise, that they belong to the other half of society, the important half that gets exactly what they want.

The half who live in treehouses throwing rope ladders down to their own.

Gah. I'm off for a large gin.

hairylittlecarrot

🍸

Awesome as ever, Carrot.

And the trans-activists who are busy changing their identities and getting to rewrite the script of MY LIFE are so successful in doing this purely because we ALL KNOW, even if we swear otherwise, that they belong to the other half of society, the important half that gets exactly what they want.

Exactly this. There's an inherent lack of comprehension as to why you can't have exactly what you want simply by asking for it that is exclusive to those born male. No amount of hormone therapy or surgical intervention will change that.

Fantastic post, HairyLittleCarrot. You always sum it up perfectly. I feel exactly the same.

There's an inherent lack of comprehension as to why you can't have exactly what you want simply by asking for it that is exclusive to those born male.

YY, totally. And the women who support them and insult TERFS on twitter, the liberal feminists who are oh so much more progressive than anyone else, are playing to the same centuries-old script, simply pandering to the menz, and giving them what they want, and they don't even realise it. Witch hunting, as they would have joined in with in the 17th Century. Move along, nothing to see here.

The non-trans males do it because they like to preach to people they perceive as lesser and not as intelligent as them, they adore the sounds of their own voices and they believe their largely uninformed opinions are just simply the most compelling and important reasoning ever, and last but not least by any means, they like to be able to call women cunts with impunity while maintaining their righteous credentials, and these opportunities are hard to come by. Becoming a zealous trans ally ticks all those boxes.

'm feeling like going on all the baby gender threads and telling them they won't know the gender of their baby til the child is old enough to say

Doesn't that imply that the baby has a gender they just can't express it yet?

I like to charge into those threads and point out that the baby has a sex, not a gender. I'm not loved for it

Surely nowerdays its designated m/f at 20w scan though

DMATWS or anomaly scan, DMAAS

Designated m/f by observation of penis at 20w anomaly scan, observation confirmed at birth
DMBOOPATWAS,OCAB

BBA 2) are we moving on from male/female sex division or man/woman "gender" division, i cant interpret which you mean from your post

I'm not any sort of expert on this subject I suppose what I mean is that I like that in recent times we have moved away from traditional man/woman roles and although the trans issue clearly a tricky issue for some, I do believe that it represents a general acceptance these days of difference .. it may damage traditional activities, such as Olympic sport but it opens up other doors in it's place. We're lucky to live in a place where people are beginning to be different without being persecuted but maybe it requires people to let go of their own identities they hold so tight to a certain extent I don't know

The trans thing seems to be opening doors, just as the more general acceptance of homosexuality has been doing over the last 20-30 years