General Trans thread part 2

[ChiefClerkDrumknott]

Following on from this one General Trans thread
Because I'm not Elsa and can't let it go

Even a quick read of this thread suggest there is a lot of anger. ..
Some examples...

You don't need examples. I told you that we are angry

This "debate" between radical feminism and the trans community is being seen by mainstream as a particularly nasty fight with some issues, risks and fears (on both sides) being deliberately exaggerated.

And who do you think started the fight? I think you'll find some rad fem fears stem from being threatened with death and rape when they bring up objections to some of these 'issues' you glibly dismiss. Do you not think that's an understandable reaction? By the way, have you popped over to Twitter or Tumblr yet to plead with 'TERF' killers to be less aggressive?

As mentioned earlier, I may be completely wrong. Perhaps the best solution is to get even angrier, even more offensive and aggressive...

You know what, as I said we are angry and we are 'aggressive', if you term defending women's rights vocally and loudly and consistently aggressive

It seems like it's all part of the sorry state of affairs whereby if someone says that they "feel" a certain way, you cannot deny them that.

I am inclined to think that most people outside the world of internet forums and tumblr realise that a man in a dress is just that though, it's absurd to claim that if you feel like a women you are one.

The trouble is that there is no reconciling the two positions. Since taking hormones and having some kind of vagina fashioned out of skin by a doctor clearly doesn't make you a woman in the traditional sense of the word, the definition has to be changed. If you base that definition on "feeling" like a woman because I prefer to adopt a traditionally female gender role, including perhaps fancying men, then this is not compatible with the obvious statement that other than biology there is nothing that makes one person a woman and the other not.

That people "liked" that cartoon shows the problems we're up against here. Virtue signalling, unthinking idiots.

Exactly venus

I've got a 13 yr old and I'd be fucking steaming if someone tried telling her that her interests and her developing personality meant that her mind doesn't match her biology

When I am really tired and curl up on the sofa I feel like my dog. Does that make me a dog? No.

When I was a girl about the ages of 7 to 11 I had all the interests more typically associated with boys e.g. sports, cars, climbing, action toys etc (still have, actually, apart from the action toys ). I cut my hair short, wore cords and was often taken for a boy. Did that make me a boy? No.
I used to say I wanted to be a boy. The fact was I didn't. I just wanted to be me.

If I had been child today instead of the 1940s and 50s some clot would have been trying to put me in a trans box. Imagine, instead of being a straight woman with a couple of kids married for nearly 50 years I could have found myself hormonally and surgically manipulated for no reason whatsoever other than some skewed psycho shit.

It's unbelievable what is happening.

I tended to prefer 'boys toys' to 'girls toys', had honest to goodness body dysphoria (I always felt like I was missing a penis even before I knew what one was) and used to try to wee standing up. The only thing that might have saved me had I been born more recently is that I've always had a soft spot for a pretty dress.

@grimble - well - i wonder if there are any trans biologists, do they get angry when someone points at a becocked ((c) me 2016) specimen and marks "male" in their box. Cue cries of "he could be a female with a cock though?" I'm not up on any of the theory (nor do i really want to be) but do they believe that animals suffer from this as well ? I used the word suffer...

Female hyenas have an appendage that is quite similar in morphology to a penis.

itllallbefine wrote "i wonder if there are any trans biologists, do they get angry when someone points at a becocked ((c) me 2016) specimen and marks "male" in their box. Cue cries of "he could be a female with a cock though?""

Julia Serano is a biologist, a transwoman and a leading transactivist.

Serano seems to have been very influential in the development of transactivist ideas that insist gender (femininity or masculinity) is innate but sex (female or male) can be changed by surgery.

You know that thing immature teenagers do when filling in a form and write 'yes please' next to where there's a box for sex? I'm going to start writing 'is a social construct' on any that use 'gender'.

Oh gosh, it wasnt all those years of writing "yes please" that brought about this whole change from sex>gender was it?!

Archery
(And a growing number, especially young lesbians who are pressured into identifying as trans men or nonbinary - because there's nobody as low-status in queer communities as common-or-garden lesbians - are then detranisitioning later, and feeling horribly betrayed.)
This
This Is at the heart of it.

Beyond "checks self for cock"

I'm a lurker but find this thread fascinating. I saw this earlier and thought it worth sharing with you all.

transywansy.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/uk-transgender-equality-report-some-thoughts/

Thanks for that. I was considering sharing it on my Facebook but sadly it's not terribly well written, even if I want to punch the air at the content! I don't think it would achieve what I want. Has Miranda yardely commented? She's a bit more punchy.

Miranda Yardley has retweeted it (which is how I saw it) but didn't see her comment on it.

Good link Lauren. I liked this part particularly:
"we, as transwomen, must accept that, whilst self-declaration may make our transition a little easier, the lives of women, the very people so many of you “identify as”, are more important than the speed and ease with which we are able to change our birth certificates, and that they deserve protection from men who refuse to grant them autonomy over their own bodies. It is equally short-sighted to befoul women for wishing to be protected within these spaces as it also benefits transwomen to not be left at the mercy of violent men, there is a long documented history of violence against transwomen by men, and to believe that certain violent men would not use these protections to harass, assault, and potentially murder transwomen is equally ignorant to history, and places us at the mercy of history repeating itself again."

Just posted this on the ioc thread, but copying here.
Published in the Times by Janice Turner...

Fantastic Beyond - I'm tempted to take out a Times subscription again just in appreciation that someone is speaking up.

Well done Janice Turner, hopefully that article will encourage sportswomen to stand up for their rights.

It gets better...

Fuck it, I'm renewing my subscription. Thank God women (with actual voices) are speaking out about this. Looks like a lot of people are about to hit peak trans.

Oh, TransyWansy is back writing - they have their head screwed on. I'm glad.

Hooray for Janice Turner. And good for Hadley for publicly backing her (Hadley is one of the very few Guardian journalists I still have any respect for). Maybe I should take out a subscription too.

Yeah, so many people have no idea about the ioc thing as it was so underreported. But i've seen so many people say this is their 'peak trans' moment, im expecting a lot of people to now have that same experience.

Place marking!

Yes Hadley! Good on you for not toeing the party line like a good girl