proposed legislation in scotland - licensed saunas and legalised prostitution

[weeonion]

A consultation is currently happening in Scotland to make charges to the laws around prostitution, brothel keeping and pimping. No matter what you think - it would be good to have your voice, experiences and opinions heard in this. They have just extended the deadline to the 8th December so if time has been an issue for you - you now have another week!

Responses prepared electronically should be sent by e-mail to:
[email protected]
Responses prepared in hard copy should be sent by post to:
Jean Urquhart MSP
Room M3.20
Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh
EH99 1SP
You may also contact Jean Urquart’s office by telephone on (0131) 348 5052

[OneMoreCasualty]

The top priority is reforming society to think buying a body to masturbate in to is as unacceptable as owning slave or sending children down coal mines.

Well put, Lass. And if you'd used the phrase " renting a body to masturbate in" instead, it would be just as true, whatever word games Emma is trying to play before he/she gets banned for a third time.

[chiohoph]

why was emma banned?

[OneMoreCasualty]

Why not report your own post and ask, chi; I'm sure MNHQ would be pleased to give you their immediate attention.

[weeonion]

Chiohoph- I read that petite jasmin's children were removed after her family reported concerns around her drug and alcohol use? Not because of her involvement in prostitution.

[weeonion]

Emma was banned. That's a shame, I was looking forward to seeing those links to back up some of her claims.

[OneMoreCasualty]

Oh, I'm not sure if third Emma has been banned yet.

I wouldn't hold your breath for the links though.

[OneMoreCasualty]

The repeated use of Petite Jasmine, (a woman killed by her ex who I believe attacked a social worker at the same time) by our group of visitors as a failure of the Swedish model, rather than a comment on the social care judgement made for those children being placed with a violent father, makes me assume that all the arguments that group use are similarly tenuous...

[HirplesWithHaggis]

Has there been "repeated use" of the Petite Jasmine case? I see only one comment on this thread which refers to the Swedish model possibly having been implicated.

[OneMoreCasualty]

Hirples, yes, it's almost always cited on MN when the Swedish model is discussed; there's a notable correlation with posters who also think Rachel Moran is a list.

[OneMoreCasualty]

I can't make advanced search pinpoint the PJ posts but there are some on here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2004170-Newnight-report-on-brothels

[ReallyTired]

"
Prostitution is not rape. Sex workers have the right to say no just like anyone else. They have the right not to accept bookings and even if they do meet up with a client they have the right to say no to sex and they have the right to end the booking whenever they want."

If prostitution is legalised will it reduce a woman's right to refuse to have sex with a gay person because he is a gay or a black person because he is black? (Sex is one of the last areas where people are allowed to discrimate on racial or homophobic grounds.) Will the refusal to shag a man because he is homosexual result in being taken to the european court of justice just like the Christian couple who refused B and B to a gay couple or that bakery who refused to make a cake for a gay organisation. I worry that women will be even more powerless if sex becomes a comodity.

[VestalVirgin]

Good point, ReallyTired - sex (i.e. the use of female bodies for male masturbation) IS already seen as commodity, because prostitution exists. Legalizing the purchase of female bodies only makes it worse, as has been seen in Germany.


Although I have to say I am not too worried about having my rights to refuse sex with gay men taken away. I never had to say "no" to sex with a gay man ... and I don't think I ever will, what with me being female and therefore not really their type.

[ReallyTired]

"Although I have to say I am not too worried about having my rights to refuse sex with gay men taken away. I never had to say "no" to sex with a gay man ... and I don't think I ever will, what with me being female and therefore not really their type. wink"

Ok... what I mean, would you say "no" to a bisexual man? Would you say "no" to a black man? A Muslim...

I can't imagine an openly gay person wanting sex with a woman, but someone might try to be provocative so they can have an excuse to take someone to court. I hope that the right for a prostitute to say "no" to a paying client is greater than the rights of black, disabled, bisexual, relgious people have to access services with out unfair discrimination.

I feel very uncomfortable with prostitution. Many women in the sex trade are little more than girls and are incredibly vunerable. I don't think its something people choose to do as a career choice. I don't agree with legalisation, but I would like the law to punish the johns/ clients/ pimps rather than the prostitutes themselves.

[VestalVirgin]

I feel very uncomfortable with prostitution. Many women in the sex trade are little more than girls and are incredibly vunerable. I don't think its something people choose to do as a career choice. I don't agree with legalisation, but I would like the law to punish the johns/ clients/ pimps rather than the prostitutes themselves.

Me, too. The prostitutes themselves are not the cause of the whole system. That's why I am in favour of the Swedish model, that also includes help to get out of prostitution, etc.

I hope that the right for a prostitute to say "no" to a paying client is greater than the rights of black, disabled, bisexual, relgious people have to access services with out unfair discrimination.

Well, yeah. The notion of sex as "service" is utter bullshit for a variety of reasons. If "sex work" was treated like any actual job, it would have to be banned simply because of the risks the "sex workers" are routinely exposed to.

STDs, including cervical cancer (through HPV), pregnancy, rape ... if all that was treated as work accident, they wouldn't be able to get insurance.



However, as we write, the right of lesbians to say "no" to men is already being eroded by the translobby. (Sorry. I know people are annoyed with the trans threads, but it is one of the biggest problems at the moment) They use "cotton ceiling" to imply that lesbians who won't let men into their panties are "transphobic".

The existence of prostitution, legal or not, certainly contributes to men's feeling or entitlement to women's bodies.

[OneMoreCasualty]

Yy VV

And it would be illegal to wish to rent the orifices of a 20 something white woman if next up on the roster was a 60 something black woman. Or black man, if the service you were after was oral.

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

Not only was Rachel Moran an actual prostituted woman, and, I'm sorry, but Dalton is an unremitting bully who gets paid for her opinion, but there are plenty of other exited women who tell the same stories. Anyone quoting Dalton in an attack against Moran is really scraping the bottom of the barrel in their desperation to have women available for them to fuck without real consent.

[meahifro]

Who is paying Dalton? And what would she have to gain by claiming to have never seen RM in those 2 years on that street?

I believe Dalton. I think RM is another "Patricia Perquin" [Google her] a liar who pretended to be a "prostituted woman" and made up lies about Amsterdam's RLD in an attempt to push through criminalisation laws.

PP was exposed when actual sex workers in Amsterdam became suspicious of her stories and how none of them had ever heard of or seen her. Example PP claimed to have something like 20+ clients a day and other sexworkers were all like how come she gets so many clients and we only get like 4 a day on a busy day.

Go West a little and it's practically the same with RM- RM has been exposed by a real sex worker.

maggiemcneill.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/gaye-dalton-affidavit.pdf

[meahifro]

And incase you missed or forgot my Q, I will repeat it.

Who is paying Dalton for her opinion on RM?

[meahifro]

and for those wondering about if there is a conflict between a sexworker's right to say no and discrimination issues...

in Scotland at least, sexworkers have the right to refuse any client they want for any reason they want. Online escort profiles it is common to see things like "no blacks/no disabled/no Irish/no men with facial hair/no men with erectile issues/no men aged under x/over y" etc etc.

[meahifro]

"The notion of sex as "service" is utter bullshit for a variety of reasons. If "sex work" was treated like any actual job, it would have to be banned simply because of the risks the "sex workers" are routinely exposed to. "

Then shouldn't we also ban working in a pub or corner shop in bad areas?

And working in the armed forces or even the police? yikes better ban those jobs too going by your logic

I'm sure we could come up with a long list of jobs more risky than working as a sex worker in a country where it is legal or decriminalised.

[VestalVirgin]

meahifro ... wait, I thought the legalisation of prostitution is still in the planning phase in Scotland?

If the online escort profiles are technically illegal, then of course they wouldn't be affected by discrimination laws.

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

Don't think PBP boy is all the interested in factual discourse.... just in being able to continue to pay to rape women.

[VestalVirgin]

Oh, sorry, my bad. Didn't realize it was a troll. Sorry for feeding him.

[meahifro]

@VestalVirgin,

Escort profiles are not illegal. Buying and selling sex is legal in Scotland (between consenting adults indoors except brothels) and advertising sexual services is not illegal, however sexworkers are criminalised if they work in the same premises (even if they aren't working at the same time).