proposed legislation in scotland - licensed saunas and legalised prostitution

[weeonion]

A consultation is currently happening in Scotland to make charges to the laws around prostitution, brothel keeping and pimping. No matter what you think - it would be good to have your voice, experiences and opinions heard in this. They have just extended the deadline to the 8th December so if time has been an issue for you - you now have another week!

Responses prepared electronically should be sent by e-mail to:
[email protected]
Responses prepared in hard copy should be sent by post to:
Jean Urquhart MSP
Room M3.20
Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh
EH99 1SP
You may also contact Jean Urquart’s office by telephone on (0131) 348 5052

[weeonion]

Many many people agree with decriminalisation of selling sex in all settings - street and indoor.

What they cant and won't get on board with is decriminalising all aspects of the sex industry - punters buying sex (exploitation), large licensed brothels, unregistered smaller brothels, removal of pimping laws etc

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

If I understand correctly Jean's proposals will mean prostituted women will no longer be criminalised?

No you have not understood correctly. It is not a crime to sell sex.

It is a crime to solicit on the street, be a pimp /madam or run a brothel or live on immoral earnings

Her proposals would remove the element of criminality from the latter .

This is portrayed as enabling prostitutes to be able to work together in a brothel in some sort of sex workers' collective run by a cuddly, good natured madam with a strong, but decent man there for physical protection. The madam and the minder would of course only take a fair wage and would never force a woman to take a punter she didn't want.

And I am the Queen of Sheba.

[PalmerViolet]

Prostituted women aren't criminalised on the whole.

It might be better, if you're going to insist on being patronising and ridiculous, if you acquainted yourself with some facts.

Or you could just continues to make passive aggressive little posts so we can laugh at you.

Either works.

[feminimam78]

If I understand correctly Jean's proposals will mean prostituted women will no longer be criminalised?

Then why does it have so little support amongst feminists? I thought we were on the side of the prostituted women?

[DrSeussRevived]

Thanks to the OP of this new thread - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2562472-FYI-Home-Affairs-Committee-Westminster-inquiry-into-prostitution-open-for-submissions?msgid=59050497#59050497

[weeonion]

Or that punters would suddenly stop viewing the women as 'pieces of meat'.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

I can't see how any of Jean Urquhart's proposals will make the slightest difference to the self-loathing these women are talking about.

[weeonion]

For anyone interested - 2 short films have been launched today with women in prostitution in scotland - www.youtube.com/channel/UCxZarKPbO_YfFKLWZSWjNeA

[HirplesWithHaggis]

Thank you, weeonion, I'll look forward to both reports.

Triafem, you might want to look a little further into the issues before saying you want to criminialise "prostituted women."

And no, of course, no-one can get weed atm because it's illegal.

[venusinscorpio]

Definitely Ipsfem. I think that is a far more realistic view of prostitution as experienced by the majority of prostitutes globally than the one put forward by "sex positive" advocates for the sex trade.

[triafemm]

"The Greens are being heavily lobbied to pursue it in the next parliament."

don't support the Greens they want wd legalised. Would you want your doctor or surgeon to turn up for work stoned? That's what I think would happen.

And if wd becomes legal then youngsters will be able to get hold of it! And least when it's illegal noone is able to get it.

[triafemm]

I want prostituted women to continue to be criminalised for working together in a brothel, so I disagree with the proposals put forward by Jean Urquaraeht.

[Ipsfem]

I didn't post when this thread went up and its old now but its really been playing on my mind. I do post on FWR board sometimes but have name changed for this as its too identifying.
I do work with sex workers fairly regularly in area where there was a well known murderer who targeted these women a few years back. I am absolutely that anyone, especially some of the posters claiming they are sex workers, could be so blinkered as to the plight of the vast majority of women in this awful situation and who think that selling your body is a genuine choice or anything 'positive' for the vast majority of women. I really dont give a shit if the very, very few individuals who earn a living and genuinely enjoy it lose out - I care about the very vulnerable and traumatised women I work with. Like the woman I saw recently whose punters now insist on not using condoms because it feels better to them or the one whose children were molested by the men she had visiting her. Believe me, none of my colleagues are 'sex positive' towards this . I doubt very much the experience of some of these posters is reflected very often in reality, most of it seems to live in twitter titillation and some weird male fantasy rather than being the experience of most women in this situation. I'm not sure that being stigmatised is the main concern of the women I work with - staying alive is a more pressing need.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

I didn't know that weeonion. Thanks.

[weeonion]

Hi hirples - just saw your post.

An inquiry has been underway for couple of months. It was called for after amendments were tabled to the Human Trafficking Bill. In a debate on the final stages of Bill it was voiced that a review of legislative changes around prostitution and purchase of sex should happen.
The inquiry is led by justice dept with 3 aspects - on the scale and nature of the sex industry, on a review of literature on legislative approaches and a snap shot of what services and service providers have and are dealing with.

The report is due early Feb.

Around the same time as jean urquharts consultation report.

It is generally accepted that her proposals were deliberately tabled at this time even though she is retiring and won't take it anywhere herself. The Greens are being heavily lobbied to pursue it in the next parliament.

[HirplesWithHaggis]

What "justice dept inquiry" do you mean? (Genuine question, not meant as goadyfucker or whatever.)

[weeonion]

Thanks lasswiththedelicateair.

I wonder when she will post up all the responses. I know certain individuals and groups are waiting to unpick them and plan on targetting organisations who opposed the proposals.

Should be a 'fun' time - especially as Scotland will also have the results of the justice dept inquiry around the same time.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Jean Urquhart has confirmed to me that all requests for anonymity will be honoured. After the deluge of pro punters posting on this thread I was very nervous at idea of my name being published.

[weeonion]

www.creweguardian.co.uk/news/14140826.Jail_for_gang_boss_who_trafficked_women_for_prostitution/

[VestalVirgin]

Ah, another troll, sorry for feeding him.
Have you reported him already, or shall I?
Mumsnet does a good job of keeping the forums free of trolls, all in all, I cannot begin to imagine how this forum would look if it wasn't moderated.

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

Sorry not sorry we see you and men like you for what they are.

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

Ah, so, option b, so can be easily ignored.

And you're the troll back again.

[norrean]

"oh but police are men who visit brothels anyway! That means if they find a trafficker they won't bother to arrest them!"

This is what VestalVirgin is claiming. If I've misinterpreted her she is welcome to correct me.

[norrean]

"Plus traffickers have been convicted of other offences - such as brothel keeping."

Prostitutes themselves are also charged with brothel keeping if they work together, which is basically what the proposal by Jean Urquhart wants to stop.