proposed legislation in scotland - licensed saunas and legalised prostitution

[weeonion]

A consultation is currently happening in Scotland to make charges to the laws around prostitution, brothel keeping and pimping. No matter what you think - it would be good to have your voice, experiences and opinions heard in this. They have just extended the deadline to the 8th December so if time has been an issue for you - you now have another week!

Responses prepared electronically should be sent by e-mail to:
[email protected]
Responses prepared in hard copy should be sent by post to:
Jean Urquhart MSP
Room M3.20
Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh
EH99 1SP
You may also contact Jean Urquart’s office by telephone on (0131) 348 5052

[OneMoreCasualty]

Back again so soon?

[GreenTomatoJam]

I hesitate to get involved but www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32235112

Nearly 800 women and girls working in the sex trade were identified as the victims of human trafficking last year, according to National Crime Agency figures seen by the Victoria Derbyshire programme

It's pointless though. It's not the women at fault, it's the men who think it's OK to buy a woman's body.

Desperate people do desperate things (I can completely understand that principles I would have stood by when single would be completely discarded if I had to keep a roof over my kids heads).

We understand in other circumstances that it's all very well to be happy about your choices when you have them, but that doesn't mean that other people doing the same things have the same freedom.

[norrean]

www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/oct/20/government-trafficking-enquiry-fails

So why are we unable to find a single trafficker even when every police force across Britain spends 6 months raiding flats, "massage parlours" and brothels?

[norrean]

from above link:
"The UK's biggest ever investigation of sex trafficking failed to find a single person who had forced anybody into prostitution in spite of hundreds of raids on sex workers in a six-month campaign by government departments, specialist agencies and every police force in the country.

The failure has been disclosed by a Guardian investigation which also suggests that the scale of and nature of sex trafficking into the UK has been exaggerated by politicians and media."

Politicians and the media exaggerate??? Never!

[VestalVirgin]

So why are we unable to find a single trafficker even when every police force across Britain spends 6 months raiding flats, "massage parlours" and brothels?

Probably for the same reasons why the German Office for Protection of the Constitution was not able to hinder neonazis in their activities, but instead made it impossible to outlaw the neonazi party NPD: Sheer incompetence.

Or possibly a lack of will. What percentage of the police force are male, and how many of them go to brothels in their spare time?

[norrean]

"What percentage of the police force are male, and how many of them go to brothels in their spare time?"

What are you trying to get at here? Go on, spit it out. I think I can guess but please clarify.

[OneMoreCasualty]

Hum if you've heard this one!

(To the tune of the British Airways jingle)

"We've... Got your ban
Here... From before
Pleeeaaease bore off this time...."

[weeonion]

Good to see articles that are 6 yrs old being used to suggest there is no trafficking in UK. As anyone with a bit of wit about them knows - there gave been more recent convictions. Plus traffickers have been convicted of other offences - such as brothel keeping.

[norrean]

"The UK's biggest ever investigation of sex trafficking failed to find a single person who had forced anybody into prostitution in spite of hundreds of raids on sex workers in a six-month campaign by government departments, specialist agencies and every police force in the country."

Response from feminists:

"oh but police are men who visit brothels anyway!"

[norrean]

"Plus traffickers have been convicted of other offences - such as brothel keeping."

Prostitutes themselves are also charged with brothel keeping if they work together, which is basically what the proposal by Jean Urquhart wants to stop.

[norrean]

"oh but police are men who visit brothels anyway! That means if they find a trafficker they won't bother to arrest them!"

This is what VestalVirgin is claiming. If I've misinterpreted her she is welcome to correct me.

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

Ah, so, option b, so can be easily ignored.

And you're the troll back again.

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

Sorry not sorry we see you and men like you for what they are.

[VestalVirgin]

Ah, another troll, sorry for feeding him.
Have you reported him already, or shall I?
Mumsnet does a good job of keeping the forums free of trolls, all in all, I cannot begin to imagine how this forum would look if it wasn't moderated.

[weeonion]

www.creweguardian.co.uk/news/14140826.Jail_for_gang_boss_who_trafficked_women_for_prostitution/

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Jean Urquhart has confirmed to me that all requests for anonymity will be honoured. After the deluge of pro punters posting on this thread I was very nervous at idea of my name being published.

[weeonion]

Thanks lasswiththedelicateair.

I wonder when she will post up all the responses. I know certain individuals and groups are waiting to unpick them and plan on targetting organisations who opposed the proposals.

Should be a 'fun' time - especially as Scotland will also have the results of the justice dept inquiry around the same time.

[HirplesWithHaggis]

What "justice dept inquiry" do you mean? (Genuine question, not meant as goadyfucker or whatever.)

[weeonion]

Hi hirples - just saw your post.

An inquiry has been underway for couple of months. It was called for after amendments were tabled to the Human Trafficking Bill. In a debate on the final stages of Bill it was voiced that a review of legislative changes around prostitution and purchase of sex should happen.
The inquiry is led by justice dept with 3 aspects - on the scale and nature of the sex industry, on a review of literature on legislative approaches and a snap shot of what services and service providers have and are dealing with.

The report is due early Feb.

Around the same time as jean urquharts consultation report.

It is generally accepted that her proposals were deliberately tabled at this time even though she is retiring and won't take it anywhere herself. The Greens are being heavily lobbied to pursue it in the next parliament.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

I didn't know that weeonion. Thanks.

[Ipsfem]

I didn't post when this thread went up and its old now but its really been playing on my mind. I do post on FWR board sometimes but have name changed for this as its too identifying.
I do work with sex workers fairly regularly in area where there was a well known murderer who targeted these women a few years back. I am absolutely that anyone, especially some of the posters claiming they are sex workers, could be so blinkered as to the plight of the vast majority of women in this awful situation and who think that selling your body is a genuine choice or anything 'positive' for the vast majority of women. I really dont give a shit if the very, very few individuals who earn a living and genuinely enjoy it lose out - I care about the very vulnerable and traumatised women I work with. Like the woman I saw recently whose punters now insist on not using condoms because it feels better to them or the one whose children were molested by the men she had visiting her. Believe me, none of my colleagues are 'sex positive' towards this . I doubt very much the experience of some of these posters is reflected very often in reality, most of it seems to live in twitter titillation and some weird male fantasy rather than being the experience of most women in this situation. I'm not sure that being stigmatised is the main concern of the women I work with - staying alive is a more pressing need.

[triafemm]

I want prostituted women to continue to be criminalised for working together in a brothel, so I disagree with the proposals put forward by Jean Urquaraeht.

[triafemm]

"The Greens are being heavily lobbied to pursue it in the next parliament."

don't support the Greens they want wd legalised. Would you want your doctor or surgeon to turn up for work stoned? That's what I think would happen.

And if wd becomes legal then youngsters will be able to get hold of it! And least when it's illegal noone is able to get it.

[venusinscorpio]

Definitely Ipsfem. I think that is a far more realistic view of prostitution as experienced by the majority of prostitutes globally than the one put forward by "sex positive" advocates for the sex trade.