proposed legislation in scotland - licensed saunas and legalised prostitution

[weeonion]

A consultation is currently happening in Scotland to make charges to the laws around prostitution, brothel keeping and pimping. No matter what you think - it would be good to have your voice, experiences and opinions heard in this. They have just extended the deadline to the 8th December so if time has been an issue for you - you now have another week!

Responses prepared electronically should be sent by e-mail to:
[email protected]
Responses prepared in hard copy should be sent by post to:
Jean Urquhart MSP
Room M3.20
Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh
EH99 1SP
You may also contact Jean Urquart’s office by telephone on (0131) 348 5052

[meahifro]

And it appears feminists are happy for sexworkers to continue being criminalised.

Feminists want prohibition even if it means sexworkers being arrested or having their safety compromised.

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

They always come to these threads, which is why people tend not to comment on them too much. However, we got told off for not commenting.... Not your bad at all. Can't work out if this is the one who let a young student forced to prostitute herself pet his dog and talk about how awful she felt while she cried and cried before he raped her anyway or a different one. Don't much care either.

[meahifro]

For comparison in Sweden, advertising for sex is illegal. But that hasn't stopped online Swedish escort directories anyway.

It took me like under a minute using Google to find websites with pages of escorts in Stockholm and their contact details. So 16 or so years of the Swedish model has done nothing to prevent potential clients in Sweden being able to find sexual services.

[meahifro]

Looks like feminists aren't interested in details anyway. Even when they are presented with evidence from Amnesty Int., the World Health Org, UNAIDs, HIV Scotland and groups made up of sex workers they just put their fingers in their ears and say "lalalala all prostitution is rape lalalalala any sexworker who disagrees is just part of the pimp lobby lalalalala"

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

Gosh, what a lot of posts.

All to justify your need to harm women.

Do toddle off, there's a dear.

[meahifro]

"All to justify your need to harm women."

I think the World Health Org, UNAIDs, HIV Scotland and groups made up of sex workers know more than you do about which laws are best suited to keep sex workers safe.

"Gosh, what a lot of posts. "

Indeed. Do you have any comment to make, other than to throw insults and accusations around?

"You're clearly not a feminist"

I don't hate men/boys. So you're right, I'm not.

[meahifro]

*and Amnesty Int, just to add. You have heard Amnesty Int., one of the biggest international human rights orgs now advocates decriminalisation of sexwork worldwide as their official policy?

[weeonion]

You are on a prolific posting roll meahifro.

As mentionned earlier, there is some scepticism around UN AIDS given their close links with an organisation, one of whose directors was jailed for trafficking. Amnesty International's policy was also influenced by a pimp. Amnesty UK abstained to vote at the international meeting.
Our health service, including access to HIV testing and treatment, access to condoms and contraception and the NHS, means the situation in Scotland is vastly different to that of other places in the world and so our approach should be based in the reality of what happens here.

No-one is suggesting that sex workers should not be listened to. Of course they are a v important group but not the only one. Survivors of prostitution and support survivors see a different approach to the one currently proposed.

[meahifro]

"Amnesty International's policy was also influenced by a pimp."

If you're referring to Douglas Fox (a sexworker whose civil partner has an escort agency in the NE), then you might want to read this:

www.amnesty.org.uk/douglas-fox

"[Douglas Fox] has had zero input on Amnesty's draft policy on sex work. Claims that he did are without foundation."

[GreenTomatoJam]

I don't care what Amnesty have to say about it.

I don't want to have my sons think it's normal to buy another person's body for their own sexual gratification their right to an orgasm provided by someone else. I don't want them to feel that it's a valid career choice, and I don't want there to be a market for it so that if they ever found themselves in a desperate situation they might consider it.

I want to make prostitutes safe by getting them out of prostitution. I want the men who think they can buy the right to abuse women to be prosecuted, and I want society to feel that way too.

These women have done nothing wrong morally. The person doing the wrong thing is the man raping them for money, and we shouldn't be legitimising it, we should be stigmatising it.

[meahifro]

DF himself also denied it on his own Twitter feed some time ago

[meahifro]

"Rapist."

Your evidence?

[meahifro]

Is everyone at Amnesty Int, the WHO, UNAIDS and HIV Scotland also "rapists"?

Well, your warped definition of the word anyway.

[meahifro]

"[Douglas Fox] has had zero input on Amnesty's draft policy on sex work. Claims that he did are without foundation."

Just like everything else that feminists claim they think they know about sexwork. No foundation. A whole load of allegations with nothing to back them up.

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

Well said GTJ.

However, one of the things that always happens in threads like these apart from a john coming to justify his rapey tendencies is that we are never able to focus on why men make the choices they do. It's always about how empowerfulising it is for the women being abused. If it really were all empowerfulising of course, the majority of the prostituted would be men.

[VestalVirgin]

I don't care what Amnesty have to say about it.

I am actually a bit sad that they make it look like being pro-prostitution was acceptable. They have a reputation of doing the morally right thing, so their stance on prostitution reinforces the notion that rape is okay.

[VestalVirgin]

If it really were all empowerfulising of course, the majority of the prostituted would be men.

This.

What do you think why men make the choices they do? Why to men choose to rape women for money, and then complain that the woman doesn't pretend to enjoy it? (This, apparently, is A Thing)

[weeonion]

Playswell - I think it is interesting to focus on the punters too. I also wonder why the vast vast majority of those who sell or exchange sex are women or girls and the vast vast majority of those who pay for sex are men. Hmmmm

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

I wish you the best of British. We've tried several times to have that very discussion.

No one wants the women in danger, we also don't want women in a job where rape, murder, drug addiction and violence is just part of the everyday experience. The only people who want women in this role are the men who make money out of them, the men that rape them and the women who make money from other women's fear and poverty.

[OneMoreCasualty]

Rachel Moran is a fake - check
Douglas Fox rocks - check
Petite Jasmine - check

I've forgotten, have we had Melissa Farley yet?

[weeonion]

Yep - Emma mentioned Melissa farley earlier in the thread.

[OneMoreCasualty]

House!

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

The equality legislation issue is fascinating. Certain employers may lawfully discriminate in certain limited circumstances. In the UK certain employees of the NHS may opt out of working with abortion patients, but the NHS cannot opt out. No -one in the parts of the UK where abortion is legal will be denied an abortion because the health professional they first saw has a moral objection.

There are no other professions or services or circumstances where services can lawfully be refused on grounds of race etc.

Seems like another plank from the "it's just another job" argument can be removed.