Is rape culture real?

[JimBean]

Hi

I wanted to ask some experienced feminists about the concept of "rape culture". I hear the phrase alot these days mainly through social media, and it constantly annoys me because from my perspective it's not real.

It doesn't seem real to me because all the aspects that supposedly create rape culture, are things ive never heard of happening.

For example, alot of people mention victim shaming, things like "she was asking for it" or "well she shouldn't have been dressed like that". Iv'e just personally never heard anyone blame the victim, ever in my life.

Also often i hear the sentence "we need to stop teaching women to protect themselves and start teaching men that rape is not okay". This one in particular irritates me, because well.. i'm male, and i (as well as every other male ive ever met) was taught to think of rape as being about as okay as murder. Like, they say we aren't tought that, and we need to teach young men that it's not okay, but... we do? young men, all young men know it's not okay...? don't they? Perhaps i'm just sheltered, or surrounded by great people who treat rape as the horrific crime it is.

The people posting about it seem to be acting like the majority of people (or at least a large enough portion to make a noticeable social impact on rape victims) treat rape like it's not a big deal, which just doesn't seem right to me. I strive to keep an open mind, and it occurred to me that if so many articles are written about it that perhaps there is something i'm missing.

Thanks, looking forward to some insight :)

[Laladeepsouth]

Once again! Mothership, you have also made implications re my character and personality actually, you could not be more wrong about the way in which people who know me relate to me, my knowledge of sexual abuse as well as my vocation, or about my beliefs. I simply said that I do not feel a rape CULTURE exists and that I don't believe that one in twenty men is a rapist or sexual abuser. I reiterate, not in my world OR the general world of the US or UK. I'm well aware of and well-informed on the issues you are discussing. I will say this I never really expected, though, to be personally insulted or ridiculed and have my words purposefully misunderstood and twisted by other women.

Again, good job! You all have proven what I feared -- that it is impossible to discuss any issue relating this subject or even state an opinion unless one tows the party line. It's very sad and I don't believe the path that feminism has taken has been or is going to be beneficial to women; in fact, I see it as just the opposite.

[Laladeepsouth]

Yeah, I get it. I had a different opinion and then didn't particularly like or understand being misunderstood and the snide insinuations and pointed out specifically what if I felt was happening. I thought it was a discussion board. Your last paragraph above, Buffy, is quite abusive as are many of the other posters last remarks -- but then it is your party. I'm am shutting up, just like OP did.

[AndSheRose]

It wasn't a 'different opinion', it was a combination of denial, discrediting and derailing of what had been a useful, productive and enlightening, for many, discussion. Finished with a blanket 'modern feminism is failing women' last word attempt.

[LurcioAgain]

For those who are interested in the evidence for 1 in20 figure (pretty robust evidence), it comes from teh work of American criminologists, psychologists and social scientists, of whom David Lisak is probably the most prominent (easily googled).

Lisak's methodolgy is simple - he gives randomly selected male college students questionnaires on their sexual behaviour, where behaviours are described but not ascribed value judgements. He finds that 6% of men admit to behaviours ("Have you had sex with a woman who was drunk to the point of insensibility?", "Have you used physical strength to have sex with a woman who's said 'no'?") which meet the legal definition of rape.

Terrifyingly, Lisak has repeated this with research where he actually asks outright "Have you ever raped a woman?" and almost as high a percentage will admit to this.

So (moving from what Lisak finds to my own personal gloss on this) these men not only rape, they know that their behaviour is rape, but they know that if they choose the right circumstances (she's seen leaving the bar with them, they don't leave bruises, or if they do, they've at least checked first that she owns a copy of 50 shades that they can allude to in their defence) there is only an infinitessimally small chance of any come-back.

[Eustasiavye]

I also read Lalas post as real rape. What other type of rape is there?


rape is rape abuse is abuse.

A fear of rape would not exist if women did not feel threatened. That threat must come from somewhere .

I also question the figures you stated but if anything I would suggest they are much higher.

My friend is undergoing sexual harassment at the moment on a very real level. Oh but that doesn't matter because she hasn't been raped.

Would you use these same benchmarks for other types of harrassment? For example is it ok if I scream abuse at my neighbour and threaten them because I haven't actually physically attacked them. Would you tell them to stop being silly, that the fear the feel doesn't really exist?

[HapShawl]

The OP didn't shut up - he came back and commented on the responses he had read

[MothershipG]

So basically Lala it's ok for you to come on the thread and announce that we are all misinformed and haven't done our research properly but if we have the temerity to challenge that assertion then we are just shutting you down? Or have I got that wrong as well?

[fattymcfatfat]

oh how silly of me. rape culture isn't real? how stupid of me to think it was. so, the nun? she was just joking when she called me a liar? I should've known! and my "friend" who I confided in? obviously wasn't responsible for the rumours about me being a "slag" no no no obviously there were no rumours, I've just imagined the bullying and snide remarks, the fact that others thought it was ok to try and touch me up because I was a "slag" so I obviously wanted it.

but no of course rape culture isn't real

[AskBasil]

And the fact that 85-90% of rapes aren't reported. That is not some radical feminist dodgy survey which asked a target group of angry man-haters if a man had ever looked at them funny and then ticked the "been raped" box if the answer was yes, that was the result of Baroness Stern's work on behalf of the Crown Prosecution Service. It is accepted by the police and the CPS and anyone who actually knows anything about rape.

And we also know why those victims don't report. Because they know there is very little chance of getting justice. Of the 10-15% who do report, only 6-7% will get a guilty verdict. Even though fewer than 5% are false allegations. Again, CPS figures, the CPS is not run by radical feminists.

And if they do get justice, like Ched Evans victim, it may not be worth it: they may be hounded and threatened to such a degree that they have to change their identity and move away from their home and family in case the rapist's supporters rape and murder them.

And rape culture is a figment of overwrought feminists' imaginations? OK.

[PuffinsAreFictitious]

Lala. I'm really pleased you posted here, less pleased about the personal abuse, but I'm used to it now. You stated that there were other cultures where rape cultures exist, I asked you for list of those, you then insulted me, so far, so MN. You were the one who suggested that there is no rape culture on US and UK campuses, you then went on to try and discredit research undertaken by a respected group. If anyone was trying to use fallacious an specious arguments it was you.

You also made the erroneous assumption that I don't know what I'm talking about. And then insulted me further.

So, thank you for posting here, it's perfect proof that when you come here without having read the thread and set about making incorrect and frankly damaging accusations about fellow women, you will be shown where you're wrong and then use that as justification for saying that everyone on MNFWR is just a big ol meanie.

It's a shame, as I've often agreed with your posts elsewhere, had I known how little you think of women, I'd probably not have nodded along. Everyday's a schoolday as they say.

[iHAVEtogetoutofhere]

"So fundamentally am I supposed to advise my own daughter to protect herself and her friends in this same way that myself and my friends behave - despite it being a result of telling women to protect themselves?"

Yes.
Because whilst we live in a rape culture it is wise to take all possible precautions whilst at the same time knowing that the onus is not on girls/women to have the responsibility for rape dumped at their door.

[DuelingFanjo]

TW rape culture on campus.

[YonicScrewdriver]

Ugh, how horrible DF

[YonicScrewdriver]

At least the team was suspended for the chant. Small comfort.

[PuffinsAreFictitious]

Any comment on DF's post lala?

Are we allowed to care about that? Or is it not "real" enough?