Is rape culture real?

[JimBean]

Hi

I wanted to ask some experienced feminists about the concept of "rape culture". I hear the phrase alot these days mainly through social media, and it constantly annoys me because from my perspective it's not real.

It doesn't seem real to me because all the aspects that supposedly create rape culture, are things ive never heard of happening.

For example, alot of people mention victim shaming, things like "she was asking for it" or "well she shouldn't have been dressed like that". Iv'e just personally never heard anyone blame the victim, ever in my life.

Also often i hear the sentence "we need to stop teaching women to protect themselves and start teaching men that rape is not okay". This one in particular irritates me, because well.. i'm male, and i (as well as every other male ive ever met) was taught to think of rape as being about as okay as murder. Like, they say we aren't tought that, and we need to teach young men that it's not okay, but... we do? young men, all young men know it's not okay...? don't they? Perhaps i'm just sheltered, or surrounded by great people who treat rape as the horrific crime it is.

The people posting about it seem to be acting like the majority of people (or at least a large enough portion to make a noticeable social impact on rape victims) treat rape like it's not a big deal, which just doesn't seem right to me. I strive to keep an open mind, and it occurred to me that if so many articles are written about it that perhaps there is something i'm missing.

Thanks, looking forward to some insight :)

There is a trap that many men fall into into in these discussions. I've done it myself. You assume you know how a woman feels, how a situation affects her, what her thought processes are. It is best avoided. But I wish the courtesy extended the other way. If you aren't a man, you don't really know how they feel, how a situation is coped with, what actions you might take to avoid certain risks. Just because you think men don't do something, doesn't make it so.

I was just about to post along the same lines as Marvellous, above. Some stats state that a 18-25 year old man is the most likily to to be assualted.

But where are the posters and pundits saying well what was he wearing? Why was he out alone? Why didn't he get a cab?

No Fleescyleescy, but if one of your group had gone home alone (maybe the one with a car on the way to her house) and had been raped, if you said it was because she was alone, then you would be.

Sorry the following posts weren't visible when I answered Fleecy

I see op hasn't even bothered to come back to the thread. Or maybe he just wanted to see the reaction his post would get...

i know a number of men who think they would never rape someone and that it has been drummed into them how wrong rape is, but in actual fact they have raped women. they just think rape is limited to very specific circumstances, that only certain people can be victims of rape, and that rape is perpetrated by men who aren't like them

Buffy, not sure if that was a question to me at the end? The quote you gave wasn't mine, so I am unsure if you are asking me something or directing your question to Fleecy, who wrote the bit you quoted.

Hapshawl is right. Everyone knows that pinning someone down and forcing sex on them is rape. But most rapes happen within the "grey area" the "blurred lines". Except there's no such thing. It's possible to rape someone without them crying, fighting, saying no. Cajoling someone into sex that you know they don't want is rape. It's not rape if both parties are capable of giving valid consent and are enthusiastic at the time of the act itself.

I've been on a number of threads where people have posed ever ludicrous scenarios to try to prove that it's possible for a woman to feel she's been raped when she hasn't been, it's a ludicrous notion, but goes to show that many people still believe that not all rape is rape.

Not what one expects from doctor, tbh

The size thing is a funny one. I have known 6 foot plus blokes who wouldn't say boo to a goose. I have known some very aggressive smaller guys - short man syndrome. But by and large, I go around in a different state of awareness, dependent on where I am and when. I am 6 foot and of reasonable build, but I don't stand out. I have mixed in male company for 40-odd years, all over the world. I cannot tell anything by looking at another man as to how he will react in any given situation.

I do know that very few blokes would choose to walk home through a dark alley or a rough part of town if there is a reasonable alternative. They are wary of were they go drinking, and what they say when they aren't in familiar surroundings. They are wary after a night out that some drunken idiot might kick off on the bus, or on the walk home. They can usually tell pretty quickly when someone starts talking to them whether there could be trouble. I think the overriding outlook is 'shit happens.' Sometimes you are just wrong place, wrong time, and that is just part of life. And if it was me, and I got a shoeing in a dodgy pub, and the police said 'what the f--- were you drinking in there for?', a part of me would think 'I can drink where I want', but another part might think, deep down, that he had a point. Especially if I was pissed.

Sorry if it's a bit waffly. I don't think most men like to project anything other than an air of competence and confidence at all times. But under the covers, it's really not any different. Is that what you were asking?

Yes, it makes sense.

That commiseratory honour thing though. It's not something I have come across. I would say the more likely attitude is 'why didn't you stand up for yourself/smack his head in?'

Wider society can be very dismissive, even condemnatory, of victims. I just wonder if it is part of our make-up, our desire to minimise the risk of harm to ourselves in a given situation. Don't wear that, don't go there, don't say that. I think we are waking up to the fact that we come at it from the wrong direction, but it's a slow process.

I think the difference is that sometimes in some situations men will be blamed for not taking more care of their personal safety... With women and rape there are very few situations where they're not held partly responsible for it.

I teach PSCHE in secondary schools and sadly victims blaming is commonly seen as acceptable. We have recently created more lessons on sexual consent and I hope we have changed the views of some. There was a higher % of victim blamers among female students then male students.

I hate to type her name on the internet but just look at Katie H new comments.

I think the ending rape culture element goes beyond: advise women to restrict their lives in X ways but don't blame them if they do behave in X way and get raped.

It should be made clear that this is putting a major restriction on women's lives. I don't own a car. I have to travel by public transport. Most week days, I walk for 20 mins down the same route through a city late at night.

What am I supposed to do? Not go anywhere except in day light hours? Not go anywhere alone? I have stuff to do. The stuff I have to do is not less important because I am a woman.

I haven't been raped and I am not minimising how terrible rape is. But it is also terrible to advise women to restrict their whole lives to avoid rape, especially as so many rapes will still happen within those restrictions.

So I do tell DD (early teens) to go where she wants to go and do what she wants to do. If she wants to go to a friends after dark walking alone, she goes. If she wants to go into a city and travel back in the evening, she goes.

Because while I don't want her to be raped, I also don't want to tell her to live a restricted life. It is of cours up to individual women to make their own decision about what restrictions they can cope with and what make the situation easiest for them to deal with, and particularly for survivors of rape, they may feel that there is less discomfort for them in not going somewhere alone.

But anyone making out that these restrictions are not a big deal, are not making many women's lives and opportunities smaller, who think that women should just do them because that is how the world is - that is rape culture.

And telling women not to go somewhere, but then saying it is okay if a man is with her, a man who may rape her, that is a major part of rape culture.

I hope OP comes back at some point but either way this is a good thread.

Never look at anything that
Katie H says, mostly!

Lots of men are rapists and don't even know they are.

This here is about that.

That denial is possible because of rape culture

Another campaign which is aimed at educating teenagers as to what rape is:

www.south-wales.police.uk/news/south-wales-police-supports-home-office-this-is-abuse-teenage-rape-prevention-campaign/

op when you have finished your GCSE revision it would be good manners to come back and tell us your thoughts on how people have replied on your thread

Wow.. I was really not expecting so many replies.

You have all given me a lot to think about, and a lot of perspectives I hadn't considered/been exposed to. I had a talk to my mother, who said very much the same thing as many of you.

Thanks for being so kind and understanding with your replies, its good to get such clear and well spoken answers to my question, this has dramatically increased my understanding :)

Umm, yay?!

Seriously, OP, glad you learnt something from the thread but this response isn't uncommon for an MN thread on a key topic, if you post again

With regards to adverts aimed at women I would like to see a campaign aimed at men telling them to stop raping.

How about 3 attractive looking guys, one with a young child the other maybe in a classroom and a 3 rd man perhaps helping a blind person cross the road with the caption which of these men will rape a woman today?

All smiling going about their daily lives.

Men such as these do rape women.

Drink and drive campaigns do not tell fathers:
Stop letting your children out , they could get killed by a drunk!btake responsibility.
They target the perpetrator and rightly so.

There's another one.

Fathers stop taking your kids to football matches do you not know they could get beaten up by a hooligan. Stay indoors and parent them properly!