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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Dropping the wifework

168 replies

monkeysaymoo · 07/04/2015 14:15

Have been doing this since christmas when I told DH that I didn't want to do all the xmas shopping for his family and he could choose to do it himself or tell them that this year we wouldn't be taking part in exchanging gifts except for children (he chose not to exchange gifts this year - fine with me his family is huge and it costs a fortune) anyway it was wonderful not to have to do all the xmas shopping and it kind of set the ball rolling really.

I no longer wash his work clothes (I will put other stuff on with mine though), I don't iron anymore (he offered to start doing it on a sunday and if he chooses not do then it gets sent off to be ironed), I don't take responsibility for birthday/mothers day gifts for his side either anymore.

We're going on holiday tomorrow and normally I would pack for him (why???) but have just said "I've left your case on the bed for you when you're ready to pack'

I have my own bedroom (we're both terrible sleepers!) and I no longer clean his room or strip and make his beds.

what's been interesting is I haven't had to make any great declaration that I'm not doing it anymore, I've just stopped and DH has just done it for himself and doesn't seem to have noticed that I'm not doing it anymore which leads me to wonder (in my case) how they became my jobs in the first place. DH is a good guy and has always more than pulled his weight but I do feel noticeably less stressed not just by the not doing but by the not having to think about what needs doing so much.

Not exactly ground breaking feminism I know but wondering what else I do that I don't realise that others consider 'wifework'?

OP posts:
mamadoc · 07/04/2015 22:11

I can see that if I ever do want it to be fairer I will just have to stop doing some of the stuff and let him sink or swim but it will be hard for me to tolerate him failing at it especially as I would likely be blamed (by DC and world at large) if eg world book day costume didn't happen.

I think they are really ingrained societal expectations. I do these tasks because it is expected of me and he does not do them because it is not expected of him. It is hard for both of us to break out of that and he does not have much motivation to do so as the status quo is pretty good for him.

The first thing that made me notice it was how men with the same job and family situation as me did not seem to be so perpetually stressed and tired and had time to take on extra responsibilities. Then I realised it was because their wives were fixing all this stuff for them.

If I say anything about it though people think I am whinging and point out that DH does quite a lot (by their standards).

bonniebear · 07/04/2015 22:15

Mama, if your dh was a sahd he would do all of that, and I doubt it a lot of it would cross your mind either. It isn't a gender thing imo

mamadoc · 07/04/2015 22:17

But I am not a SAHM. I am the main breadwinner.
Therefore how is it not a gender thing?
We both work approx same hours and have the same free time but I spend more of mine cleaning and organising

YesILikeItToo · 07/04/2015 22:19

One I have noticed recently is 'carting shit around that might entertain/clean/distract' the child when we're out.

mamadoc · 07/04/2015 22:20

He does not want to be a SAHD and since I won't give up my career how can I ask him to give up his which is equally important to him. I would not ask him to do that although it would have made financial sense certainly when we had 2x full time childcare expenses.

I have often thought that if our genders were reversed I would certainly have been a SAHP by now.

Philoslothy · 07/04/2015 22:23

As a feminist SAHP/ housewife/ lady of leisure this interests me and I expected that I would do most of CMOTs list . I was surprised to see that I don't.

Being the default person for meal planning
We have a weekly family meeting, everyone contributes a meal of their choice and volunteers to cook one meal.
Being the person who washes/launders
Children do most of their own laundry. I do all of the bedding. When I worked it was split more equally.
Arranging childcare or being default child carer, this is perhaps worse if it leaves you with the child care responsibility when the other parent is not at work.
When I worked we had childcare in the home, we chose this person together. Now I am at home I guess I am the default child care in the week. At the weekend DH tends to be the go to person. When I worked DH was the default. He can be quite flexible with work so often comes to appointments with me.
Arranging and attending dental or medical appointments for children
Appointments for the children at home tend to happen with me. The older children tend to go with DH as we are quite strict about then not having time off.
"Mum's" family organiser calendars - mother as family organiser being the societal norm. The backbone of the family.
We have an online calendar and s kitchen one which is seen as a family one- certainly not mine.
Being the fun arranger. The weekend activity planner. The holiday planner. All these mental drains falling on one person takes up a great deal of mental bandwidth.
Again with a large family this has to be planned as a family.

bonniebear · 07/04/2015 22:23

I am the main breadwinner. I help with night feeds, and childcare. I hoover on weekends. I tidy around if there is stuff left out in week. I will text dh instructions if I need errands running and I can't do them. That is about it. I am not doing anymore as I think it is right that the breadwinner should definitely help with childcare, but it isn't there place to be running around cleaning

Philoslothy · 07/04/2015 22:25

The first thing that made me notice it was how men with the same job and family situation as me did not seem to be so perpetually stressed and tired and had time to take on extra responsibilities. Then I realised it was because their wives were fixing all this stuff for them*

This is exactly why this stuff is important. Until recently I was a teacher, I was the only member of the senior leadership team who was a woman with children. The others were all men with SAHP or women with no children. Even at middle management level this pattern was quite similar.

YonicScrewdriver · 07/04/2015 22:36

Monkey, love that football team analogy.

Philo, absolutely. Even though DH and I are very balanced, we are both working with people (men) who have a 10:90 split of household shit not a 50:50. So we are both at a disadvantage on the staying late front.

Duckdeamon · 07/04/2015 22:40

mamadoc My situation and list would be v similar to yours, although I am the lower earner (but a high earner in comparison with only women)

"We have talked about it and he fundamentally disagrees that I do more. He feels he does his fair share. He compares himself to his own dad (and mine) and most other men he knows and it is true that he does more or a similar amount. However many of these men have SAHPs."

We have had similar discussions and I am Angry. It's true that he does much more than 99% of the men we know, but the better comparison would be with me!

mamadoc · 07/04/2015 22:40

I have often said that I have no desire to be a SAHP but I would like to be married to one!

However I feel it would be a case of 2 wrongs not making a right if I pressured DH into staying at home.

I think this happens to women a lot if they are the lower wage earner and I don't think it's right. It should be a free choice.

I just wish that since we are working outside the home equally we should be working inside it equally too. DH really is a nice decent guy and I think he really does do more than most and more than society expects but not as much as I expect ie half!

bonniebear · 07/04/2015 22:42

Dh is no longer a sahd, but as he is the lower earner he does do vast majority of it. I don't see anything wrong with that, as them I am free to push forward in my career. He benefits from that with the money I make

Duckdeamon · 07/04/2015 22:42

And yes yes to all this being a big disadvantage to women in paid work.

Philoslothy · 07/04/2015 22:43

I am not a LTB type but I would leave a man who did not expect to have an equal amount of leisure time as me.

Makes me uncomfortable to say that because as a SAHP I have far more leisure time than he does.

mamadoc · 07/04/2015 22:44

I have a DD and a DS and I already worry about and have to fight ideas (in myself as much as anything) that she should help with housework but he does not have to.

She is older and she likes to help so it's easy to involve her but this weekend I felt a bit bad that she and I were cooking dinner and the boys were playing lego.

WastingMyYoungYears · 07/04/2015 22:48

I sometimes think that 'having it all' actually means 'doing it all'...

WastingMyYoungYears · 07/04/2015 22:50

I haven't come across the idea that the lower earner should do more around the house etc. before. I don't like it - why shouldn't the lower earner be able to focus on their career to try to progress it?

Philoslothy · 07/04/2015 22:52

I haven't either wasting. I do think that equal leisure time should be the goal - this can be problematic if one partner is a workaholic.

mamadoc · 07/04/2015 22:57

Philoslothy I don't think it is as overt as him stating that he deserves more leisure time than me. That would be outrageous. It is more that he does not notice the imbalance and he finds it hard to accept when I point it out as pretty much the whole rest of the world thinks he does more than expected.

How it happens practically is eg 3 afternoons I do pick up and 2 afternoons he does. On my afternoons I will usually manage to stick a wash on or put the Hoover round or ring up to make appointments, do banking. On his afternoons he does not think to do any of these 'extra' things.

At weekends whilst I am cleaning the bathroom (a task I think even he will admit he does not do) he is rarely doing nothing he is often playing with or at least supervising the DC or he might work as he is self employed.

It's kind of subtle. Many of my friends DHs do indeed do less and are off on long cycle rides or playing or watching football at weekends. I think it's rare that a woman takes every Sat am off

OutsSelf · 07/04/2015 23:00

My DP is the SAH parent and he has not automatically defaulted to doing the wife work, which to my mind isn't housework per set but is the stuff that facilitates family life. He does benefit from comparison with most of the other dads we know but he's not that brilliant when compared with the other wives. Stuff like bills, insurance, hospital and dental appointments, buying gifts he just doesn't think about. Obviously I have pointed this out to him, and he says he is willing to do them but with the usual frustrating proviso that I tell him or how would he know? To me though, that I'm not his (fucking) PA is precisely my point.

I try to deal with this on an issue by issue basis. Only last week, though, a letter came addressed to our 22mo and he left it unopened for me so I questioned this. However, he's taken the DC for their recent immunisations, and organised birthday gifts for friends' DC recently. He also instantly recognises that they ate his responsibilities, he doesn't ask "what are we doing about this?" in that insidious way named by PP

I regard myself as a feminist and my DP as an ally but really feel that the depth of our conditioning isn't erased by reading a couple of books together and agreeing. It's work that we both have to do but I regard it as a form of activism because of the way it is normalises equal contributions to the household for our DC but also for the community we are part of.

We are late 30s/ early 40s. I was wondering how much this was a factor?

Philoslothy · 07/04/2015 23:00

If I pointed out to my husband that we had unequal leisure time - and it was making me unhappy - and he did not change I would leave him. I would hope that this came to light earlier in our relationship so that rather than leaving him, I would never have settled.

thatstoast · 07/04/2015 23:01

Thanks for your honesty on this thread mamadoc. It's been really interesting to read people's experiences of being lumbered with 'wifework'. I really empathise with what you said about your DH doing a lot compared to what society expects. I think my DH is very much like that. I think he would say he does 50% of household stuff but really he only does 50% of the obvious stuff like cooking/cleaning. And maybe not even that! When I ask him to do more he looks at me like I'm mad. I think if I made a list of all the things I do and asked to split it equally his head would explode.

Heckler · 07/04/2015 23:03

I have a long commute, so dh does more of the stuff during the week. It used to be the other way round.

But my personal arrangements don't mirror society at large , do they? Where, from reading the boards here, the woman is often taking on the lions share of all that wife work. Isn't that the point. And that is a feminist issue.

Thank you for posting the thread monkey. I think this is an entirely appropriate place to have posted it, and have found it interesting.

bonniebear · 07/04/2015 23:05

We are younger outs. I don't feel any pressure. Dh gets blamed if he forgets stuff. He did forget non-uniform day once and dd came home and said daaaddd. I also blamed him. It wasn't my fault, and he apologised to all involved.

mamadoc · 07/04/2015 23:18

I've been noticing and feeling frustrated about it for a while and I have not found many people who understand. Hence compulsion to share on mumsnet.

People of my mum's generation think that he does quite enough (unsaid...for a man)
Many of my friends are either SAHM or the lower earner/ more part time person so they accept that it is right for their DH to do less and don't have a problem with it.
A lot of my colleagues are male and similarly blind to any issue. They feel that they do plenty at home too (but would be non-plussed at the concept of having to make a book day costume)
My older female colleagues feel the same as my mum that I have it far better than they ever did (likely very true)

I often feel that I must be mad as no-one else sees a problem that I do.