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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Is pubic hair a feminist issue?

193 replies

Pipbin · 03/04/2015 18:57

Sorry if this has been done to death already.

Following on from another thread elsewhere there seems to be a divide between women who do and don't remove their pubic hair.

Some women who don't do it see it as another form of control that men have over women. That women are removing all their hair to please men and because it is now being normalised.
The women who do do it do so because they want to and they like it.

So, is it a feminist issue? Should women be able to do what they chose or are women doing it because it's another form of control even if they are doing it through their own free choice?

OP posts:
TurnItIn · 03/04/2015 19:15

Of course it's a feminist issue.

Women are under incredible pressure to remove all hair that is deemed "unsexy" so we shave our legs and armpits and have done for many decades. When I was young (I'm 43) I never even considered my pubic hair at all. I shaved my legs and armpits from around 11 but never even thought about my pubic hair. In my twenties I shaved my bikini line when I was going swimming or going on holiday (and I remember vividly some ill advised adventures with hair removal cream that just melted my pubes a bit and created a stench that turned the stomach) but never thought about my undercarriage - nor had any complaints from any men I had encounters with.

In my early thirties I started having my bikini line waxed before holidays, in my late thirties I started having Brazilians and in my early forties I started having Hollywood waxes. I am currently sporting a brilliant "1970's" powerbush. Currently single

I think I'm fairly representative of the changes over the past couple of decades for MY generation, and I am completely aware of the societal changes that I have bowed to. I hold my hands up, I am a feminist and I wax sometimes. I don't do it because I feel cleaner, or because I like to be hair free, or because my pubic hair gets caught in my knicker elastic (ha!), or for any other reason than society tells me that if I wax I am more attractive, cunnilingus is more likely, I am less likely to feel embarrassed by my hairy minge if I get rid of it when seeking a shag.

[sigh]

Conditioning is a powerful force. The thing is that I am well aware that waxing/shaving the pubes creates tiny cuts in the genital area which leads to a higher risk of infection, but I still do it. I also wash my vulva with feminine (doncha love it?) wash as I've somehow convinced myself that this is better than the quick swipe I used to do with shower gel (it probably is but I know I'd be better leaving it alone completely and just swishing some water around the area)

IN CONCLUSION. It's all fucked up.

80sMum · 03/04/2015 19:25

How interesting! It used to be the case that a full-frontal nude, with pubic hair, was the ultimate in sexy photos! I recall boys from school getting hold of their dads' or elder brothers' copies of Playboy or somesuch and oohing and ahhing over the photos that showed women with pubic hair! It was a sign of being an adult. Girls aspired to it! As teens, we wanted to look like adults. Having no pubic hair wold have been considered very childlike and undeveloped, a bit like having no boobs.

YonicScrewdriver · 03/04/2015 19:28

The Caitlin Moran rule of thumb
As to is this a feminist issue applies - "are women worrying about this shit when men are not?"

Yes it is. Doesn't mean women who wax aren't feminists, or that those who don't are.

MrsWolowitz · 03/04/2015 19:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

alexpolistigers · 03/04/2015 19:37

TurnItIn Interesting post. It seems your own perspective has evolved. But I suppose in any case as time goes on people change opinions, and do all sorts of things differently from how they did when younger.

Why are women expected to put themselves through so much pain on a regular basis through waxing?

TurnItIn · 03/04/2015 19:40

At the risk of being "what about the menz" about it, there IS greater pressure on men to get rid of their pubic hair, back hair, arse hair than ever before.

I recently dated a man in his 50's who shaved his nuts. It was all a bit itchy on the face (heavens to Betsy) for me and unutterably itchy and uncomfortable for him - so the tide is turning in a small way towards men being feeling as shit as women do about their natural body hair. I don't mind men having hairy chests, backs, arms, legs, balls or arses...why I can't translate that into men not giving a fuck about my body hair is probably because I have suffered years and years of social conditioning where's men are just starting to feel the effects.

TurnItIn · 03/04/2015 19:42

*where as - fuck autocorrect!

YonicScrewdriver · 03/04/2015 19:43

Yes, I agree there is a bit of pressure on men now.

NeedAnEasterEggForMyGiraffe · 03/04/2015 19:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TurnItIn · 03/04/2015 19:52

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there is such a huge divide between the past and now - I'm pretty sure (although I'm absolutely prepared to be proven wrong) that throughout the ages, for many hundreds of years, women's body hair just was. We had hair on our legs, same as men, hairy armpits, hair wherever it grew, pubic hair - it was all just there. I doubt housemaids, farm workers, factory workers could afford razors (and safety razors weren't even invented so I can't imagine women were using straight razors to shave their genitals to feel cleaner or to ensure no hair got caught in their bloomers) or even gave it a thought...and neither did the men!

Women in art were all pretty hair free though so that's an interesting point.

\streamofconscience

thehumanjam · 03/04/2015 19:52

I think men are under pressure now too. I challenged a young female relative on Facebook when she made a comment about pubic hair on women being gross and I asked why is it not considered gross on men and she replied that it is also disgusting on men. Lots of people commented expressing surprise that I thought it was acceptable on either sex. Apparently men now shave or wax. If I wasn't married I think I would be celibate because I can't be bothered with all this shit.

VikingVolva · 03/04/2015 19:53

I think that if the driver had been decided by women because it felt 'fresher' the discovery would have been made before the huge change in availability of porn (with VCR in 1980s).

YonicScrewdriver · 03/04/2015 19:54

Men in art are also largely hair free Turn.

TurnItIn · 03/04/2015 19:55

I meant to add that I think the desire to remove all pubic hair - for both sexes is IMO down to the pornification of society. Sex sells and it's easier to sell sex if all the hair is gone and you can really get a good look at all the anatomy. [blink]

TurnItIn · 03/04/2015 19:58

That's true Yonic. I think pubic hair is difficult to paint.

Wink
TheWhiteRoad · 03/04/2015 20:02

It is a feminist issue.

I am single and have been for a while. I am currently sporting a full bush. I like it. I don't feel 'unhygienic '. I also haven't shaved my legs before Christmas. I find I quite like having hairy legs too.

Will I be brave enough to leave my body hair as it is if I go swimming or start dating again? Sadly, probably not. I do find it distressing the amount of younger people who seem to find female public hair 'disgusting' (most recent discussion was on my cousin's FB page last week).

Hakluyt · 03/04/2015 20:02

Of course women should be free to remove their pubic hair if they want to. But they should do it in the full knowledge that it is a profoundly anti feminist choice. Thwt doesn't mean they shouldn't do it. But there is complex history and politics involved which they should be aware of.

YonicScrewdriver · 03/04/2015 20:08

True!

But also - building up drawing skills via knowledge of muscle layers etc was part of the classical tool box - why obscure all that skill with a hairy chest?!

YonicScrewdriver · 03/04/2015 20:09

It is kinda odd that, if pubic hair on women is so "gross", swimming costumes for women are so brief (vs shorts for men, say)

NeedAnEasterEggForMyGiraffe · 03/04/2015 20:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ThatBloodyWoman · 03/04/2015 20:14

Its a feminist issue for sure.
I like what my body looks like and like men who like what my body looks like.

Original poster
Pipbin · 03/04/2015 20:15

I just feel so torn about it. I can feel the social conditioning happening. I'm 40 and I have only ever given myself a cursory trim to avoid anything hanging out over my swimming costume. I think it is very generational.
However, so many women seem to do it now that it is becoming normalised. I don't think that it is men that are driving it. I do feel that other women are the harshest critics. I found myself genuinely considering it after watching Game of Thrones where there was a lot of female nudity and the women were very trim. They could show blood, guts, murder and rape but not a hairy fanny.

I know that women can do what they like, but I feel that I need to tell women that it is social conditioning. But then what business of mine is it? But then it is my business and it's the business of all women. Although more is open to women we seem to spend more time making ourselves seem even more perfect.

I know it's nothing to do with me and I wouldn't ever tell anyone not to do it. I shave my legs and arm pits so I'm being hypocritical.

Arrgh!!

OP posts:
alexpolistigers · 03/04/2015 20:19

I don't remove any body hair, TheWhiteRoad. I assure you you don't need to be brave about it. I was hairy when I met my dh, and I assure you I never had any problem finding partners. And as for swimming? I couldn't care less what complete strangers who happen to be swimming nearby think.

TurnItIn · 03/04/2015 20:22

I don't agree that it is a profoundly anti-feminist choice though.

I am a feminist, and one that has had all the scales removed from my eyes. I know that removing my pubic hair, my pit hair, my leg hair is done because I live in a patriarchal society that seeks to infantilise me because I am a woman. I am completely aware that my love for stupid beauty products and make-up and hair straighteners and nail polish diminshes me in some way for some feminists. I am fully aware that societal conditioning has shaped me in lots of ways that could be deemed as anti-feminist. That doesn't mean that I am anti-feminist, it simply means that I have lived a life which has conditioned me to be a certain way and that conditioning is very difficult to break free from.

Luckily, I know that I fight for equality, and it is a fight at the moment. I don't have to show my credentials at the door by not shaving or waxing or not wearing make-up, I don't have to pretend that the society we live in has no effect on the way I live my life, I don't have to turn myself into some caricature of a "radfem" (hate that phrase) in order to fit in with feminism. I can just be who I am and still fight the good fight.

TurnItIn · 03/04/2015 20:24

X-posted with lots!